CAREERS IN NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS
with Lee Polansky, Daveena Tauber and Douglas Stewart
Hosted by Paula Foster
August 2000
The following Guest Speaker Discussion originally took place on WRK4US in August of the year 2000. Because WRK4US has a confidentiality policy, all names and email addresses have been altered or removed, except for the moderator's and the Guest Speakers'.
The discussion can be read in two ways- by simply scrolling down and reading the whole thing, or by clicking on the topical links below, which take you to specific places within the discussion. The discussion can also be printed out in its entirety for your reading convenience.
Special thanks to Jennifer Pearson who volunteered her time to edit this discussion and prepare it for posting on the web. If you are interested in editing a future discussion, your help will be much appreciated; email Paula Foster, WRK4US List Manager, at pfchambers@sbcglobal.net .
Breaking Into Nonprofits
Prior Experience and Self-Presentation
Part Time, Contract Work, and Consulting
Development/Fundraising
Opportunities for Non-Native Speakers
Nonprofit Job Hunting Experiences
Internship Problems
Program Management
Non-Governmental Organizations
Leaving Doors Open to Academia
Sex and Age Discrimination
Doing Research for Nonprofits
Public History Nonprofits
Nonprofit Job Hunting Resources
Paula Foster
Greetings and Good Morning to WRK4US! Today marks the beginning of a one-week discussion of "Careers in Nonprofit Organizations." We have three Guest Speakers with us: Lee Polansky, Douglas Stewart, and Daveena Tauber. All of them are either PhD or ABD in Humanities disciplines and all have extensive experience working in nonprofits. They will share those experiences with us, starting today, and respond to questions until discussion closure on Monday August 21. Speakers, you may post your introductions any time today.
Cheers, Paula Foster WRK4US list manager
Lee Polansky
I. Introduction
I have a BA in Sociology and History, a Master's degree in Public Policy and International Affairs (basically an MPA), and I'm ABD in American History at Emory University. After getting my BA, I did various things, including working at the Massachusetts legislature and for a Congressional campaign. I found that I loved working in politics, so I returned to school for the Master's degree.
As I wrote my MPA thesis, I decided to just continue on to a Ph.D., so I applied to history programs. Unfortunately, by the time I got to Emory, the market was heading downhill. By the time I was doing my comps, new Ph.D.s, in my program and others, were taking several years to find tenure track jobs. Panic was setting in amongst the students.
The faculty warned grad students that they had to "pay their dues." Well, I *had* paid my dues-I had worked in crappy jobs for 7 years *before* I returned to graduate school. I was very happy at Emory. I love history. I *still* love my dissertation topic and I feel fortunate to have worked with my committee. But as I worked on my dissertation proposal in the Fall of 1992, I considered alternatives to academia. I didn't feel especially comfortable in academia, so I felt no compulsion to remain. Coincidentally, that fall I was also working for the Clinton campaign. I suddenly remembered how much I loved politics, so I decided to finish the dissertation and return to political work.
From then on, while I was researching and writing the dissertation, I also worked for non-profits and in public history jobs. Even though I had political experience and a professional degree with the MPA, I feared that a Ph.D. would hamper a Washington job search, so I wanted to augment my c.v. I also traveled to Washington several times from '93-'95 to network and talk to people about working in Washington.
In May 1996, with the dissertation 75 percent complete, I was hired for a temporary job with a federal agency and I moved to Washington, D.C. After my federal contract ended, in October 1996, I was hired as a researcher at my current non-profit. The money was terrible, but I needed the work. I found that the DC market was (and is) highly competitive, and my Ph.D. / ABD status threw many people-they didn't understand why I wasn't "teaching."
II. What I do
My organization is a fairly typical, well-established, mid-sized progressive non-profit that lobbies and educates in environmental issues and for women's reproductive rights. We have 30 full-time employees and a $5 million budget. I'm the Sr. Researcher and Editor; I edit our quarterly magazine; research and write briefs for the president of the organization; and work extensively with our board of directors. Every day is different, but some things that I do include meet informally with staffers to talk about the magazine and to research questions they have. I am responsible for all aspects of our quarterly magazine from start to finish, including assigning, organizing, proofing, and editing articles, and overseeing production and financial aspects.
I talk to board members about organizational things; I organize informational packets responding to press queries. I research questions for the president, and either brief him or write a memo. I train and supervise a paid fellow (usually a recent college graduate), and if we have a research assistant, I supervise him/her. I sometimes help design and write material going out to members and to the public. I'm currently working with our development director to create an advisory board of "influential" people to help raise funds.
III. The good news and the bad news about nonprofits
There are many advantages to working for a nonprofit. I enjoy the people I work with; they're smart, creative, funny, and aware. I get to work with people, not just lecture them (which I intensely disliked). I love the flexibility. I have great hours and the environment is casual and non-hierarchical. I have a lot of control over what I do. I've developed a thorough knowledge about nonprofits; I use many of my skills and I've developed new skills.
There are also disadvantages. The major problem (and I think this is true of most nonprofits) is that money is a constant worry, and staff shortages and/or turnover are perennial problems. Nonprofits attract the young and the ambitious. When they leave for higher pay (or for graduate school), you might have to assume duties that you don't necessarily want. I don't have a secretary (no one here does) and I do a lot of administrative work.
Finally, my job can be very stressful and chaotic. Our organization is unusual in that our president is a former congressman. If you came to our office and closed your eyes, you would think that you're in a congressional office on Capitol Hill. (I would say, however, that the reactive, crisis-driven environment here is *not* the nonprofit norm.) So the job takes a lot of my psychic energy. This has added to the difficulty I've had in finishing the dissertation (and I can almost see the end of the tunnel), so I am still ABD. I do plan to finish, however, and don't regret the Ph.D. for a second.
IV. Who should think about working at nonprofits
The people who do best at non-profits are flexible, curious, and smart. Non-profit types can't be intent on starting at the top. Competitiveness is often discouraged. Everyone does *some* scut work. Most non-profits are politically "progressive" so one should be somewhat simpatico. You have to be a teamplayer and you can't mind doing stuff you weren't hired to do. And, you can't be looking for the big bucks (obviously).
The advantage to looking at non-profits is that there are thousands of them and they are everywhere (although they are especially prevalent in Washington). And they're always looking for bright people who can write, communicate, and work with others. Many are flexible and non-corporate enough to allow you to create and define your own job. You'll work for a good cause and you can have a good time!
Daveena Tauber
Greetings,
My name is Daveena Tauber and I'm a graduate student in English Renaissance Literature at Rutgers University. Nearly all of my professional experience has been at non-profits or small businesses that were non-profit by default. In high school I worked on an advisory panel for Planned Parenthood creating media to use with teens. I was convinced that I wanted to do counseling and crisis intervention with teenagers as a profession. However, going to a college where the psych program was strictly experimental put a crimp in those plans. I became an English major and the rest, as they say, was history.
In college I took three years off between my sophomore and junior years. I landed a job as a secretary at Oregon Natural Resources Council, a position that spurred many years of writing and thinking about gender roles in the environmental movement. I was disgruntled by how few women in the organization had access to "the issues," even while we had access to the dishes, the dusting, and the accounting. Since then, I've been thinking and reading a lot more about how the movement has traditionally excluded people of color and the poor. Moving from Oregon to New Jersey to attend grad school has also taught me a lot about how different environmental issues look in urban places where there are no large species or native forests to defend. By default I've ended up teaching the "environmental" section of the research writing class offered by my department out of lack of interest from other grad students, who seem to prefer the sexier sections like "the body," "urban life," etc. I feel a strong conflict between my academic training to deconstruct concepts like "nature" and my awareness that big businesses are busily deconstructing my beloved Oregon forests while I sit in the classroom. Making decisions about how to teach this class has been challenging. Frankly, I'm not interested in having my students come away thinking that their only responsibility or capability is to theorize nature. Nor do I want them to think that intellectual work is devoid of meaninful practice. Mostly they teach me a lot. I've learned a lot about environmental racism and urban issues from their work. I feel very strongly that my only legitimate power as a teacher is what materials to put before them. I cannot ask them to think as I do. I feel pride in creating a classroom situation where there is room for debate. Do any of you struggle with how to present the tensions between theorizing and practice, between advocacy and neutrality, with your committments as activists and scholars?
The year before I entered grad school, I went to Guatemala for 6 weeks. I came back and landed a job as the development director for the Portland Central America Solidarity Committee quite accidentally (I'd gone in looking to volunteer). I was successful as a grant writer, which made me think that there is always the possibility that I could do this if academia doesn't work out. I also learned a lot about the system of foundations and the grant circuit that non-profits have to chase every year. I found myself wondering at times who is chasing whom. Foundations seem to go through cycles or fashions in funding as surely as academia goes through fashions in scholarship. How do these fashions dictate or shape program work? How do they even shape which subjects are covered in the news? Working for PCASC I learned the hard truth that an immediate crisis is a much more effective as a fundraising tool than long-term support for a cause or need. Where my organization had turned out thousands during the counter-insurgency wars of the 80's, we were lucky to turn out a hundred to our annual events. How do we maintain the public's interest without wearing them out with cries of WOLF?
After my first year at Rutgers, I moved to Vermont for the summer and found myself working for Frances Moore Lappe (60's radical and author of Diet For a Small Planet). She had started a non-profit called The Center for Living Democracy after leaving her first organization, Food First. Again I found myself doing grant writing (this time to huge foundations), organization, and publicity. I found myself dreaming about doing "consulting" since people seem to make huge sums doing the same thing I was doing for a few bucks an hour. If anyone has ideas about this, I would love to hear about it. It seems to me that many progressive non-profts are chronically understaffed or staffed with people who have no particular experience in management, writing, or fundraising. Surely they could use a Jill-of-all trades to help them, yes?
This brings me to another issue: pay and benifits. There's a great deal of pressure on non-proftis to keep their administrative overhead low, which generally militates against paying staff people well. When non-profit heads make high salaries, it's usually the subject of scandal. In this sense people in academia and non-profits face similar challenges. Both are subject to government cuts and face challenges to their existence by conservative pundits. Many non-profits get around restrictions on profit-making and lobbying activities by opening profit-making wings or foundations. I do find myself wondering how these activities impact program work. Likewise, the education sector (which, I should add, is mostly a FOR profit venture), is coming up with higher profit projects like on-line classes, which allow them to avoid the inconveniences of maintaining a physical plant and are potentially usable year after year without re-paying the instructor.
This is a lot to chew on, but I hope this gives you a sense of some of the issues on my mind. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share these concerns. I look forward to continuing the discussion.
Daveena Tauber
Douglas Stewart
My name is Douglas Stewart. Last year, I moved from teaching English at a liberal arts college to working in the Development office of a nonprofit organization in Atlanta. Since September 1999, I have been writing grants for this organization, Hands On Atlanta, and I also manage a small environmental program there. I'd like to thank Paula for inviting me to serve as a "guest speaker," and share with you all some of my experiences and thoughts as a Ph.D. who has decided to pursue a career in the non-profit sector. I cannot claim nearly as much experience as Lee-whose introduction I learned a great deal from-but there are some common general aspects to our experiences that might be relevant.
I'd like to throw out a couple flags for discussion before I begin. The first concerns techniques of identifying job skills. After leaving academia, I tried to do intensive self-assessment and job-skill identification but it wasn't particularly helpful. Actual experience-in my case, as an intern-was far more valuable for me. Second, the particular nonprofit area I work in, development, can be very lucrative if you are very people-oriented and detail-oriented. But there are many different types of development work, and the one I have chosen is probably the least remunerative. I think the different types of development work demand different types of workers/personalities, and this is something I'd be happy to discuss in more detail.
I. ACADEMIA/TRANSITION
I began graduate study in English literature at Harvard in 1989. Eventually I settled on the eighteenth century as my field of specialization, mainly because I was interested in studying libel law and that period was so rife with literary insults. I wrote my dissertation on the relationship between the insult and print culture, focusing on canonical authors-Milton, Dryden, Pope, et. al.-and trying to demonstrate some sort of homology between printed insults and performative insult contests like the dozens. I taught as a section leader for five years before receiving my doctorate in 1997. Then I taught for another year as an adjunct instructor before receiving a tenure track position at Oglethorpe University in Atlanta. Oglethorpe is a school of about 1,000 students, with competitive admissions and a strong English Department. However, it only took one year of handling a 3/3 load (yes, I know it can get worse, but. . .) for me to realize that teaching literature was not my vocation. I resigned after receiving low evaluations-the Chair told me that my contract would probably not be renewed after the following year-and started to search for a non-academic job.
It took me about three months to decide that what I wanted to do next was write grants. I did many of the exercises in What Color is Your Parachute, took the Myers-Briggs test, did about ten informational interviews, and spent a lot of time talking with my friends and family before deciding that this would be the right thing for me. However, it was by no means a firm decision-grant writing didn't strike me as the ideal job, but as the closest match I could think of. My research wasn't particularly thorough; I did not have the perseverance to do all the work that What Color is Your Parachute recommends, and it was mainly two interviews with a foundation officer and a grant writer which determined my course.
I was very lucky that Hands On Atlanta happened to be looking for a grant writer at the same time I made this decision. However, I didn't even apply for this job, but instead offered to intern there as a part-time grant writer. In retrospect, I probably could have gotten this job immediately, even with no experience in writing organizational grants; the Ph.D. impressed them, although I did not realize this at the time. But it was probably serendipitous that I spent six weeks or so interning there, rather than jumping right in. I got the opportunity to study how the organization worked, compare it with my previous job, and decide whether this was really for me.
I can't say that all the self-assessment I did was particularly helpful. In the end, I learned infinitely more from on-the-job experience than I did from all the self-assessment/job identification skills I did. In fact, on the basis of the personality/job skills tests I took, nonprofit work was one of the least suitable lines of work identified for me! (I think business-writing teaching came out first). I welcome others to share their experiences. It does sound like, for many of us, our career paths have been determined through a great deal of chance and serendipity. I know this has been the case for me.
II. MY JOB
Hands On Atlanta is a "service organization," i.e. its mission is to recruit and manage volunteers for other non-profit agencies. Along with coordinating volunteers for other programs, we run a set of independent programs in Atlanta public schools. Our principal clients are the volunteers themselves. Our programs have had a very positive and demonstrated effect in advancing other agencies' missions and improving students' academic performance, but our core mission is to empower people through engaging them in community service. As a result, even as the organization has grown into a staff of over 40 paid full-time employees, we try to get volunteer support for every conceivable kind of work. The emphasis on volunteerism extends to the professional development of its staff-we're all expected to do work way beyond our job description, i.e. helping out with service projects on weekends, serving as reading tutors, picking up supplies, recruiting volunteers for our annual serve-a-thon, etc. I know this kind of eclecticism is true of many non-profits, particularly smaller ones, but it is really built into the organizational culture here.
I find my job here infinitely more rewarding than my work as a teacher and scholar. The organizational culture is better, the work is more collaborative, and I can do something else when I come home at night. I didn't realize how agonistic academic culture tended to be until working here and observing how tactful and appreciative people were even in the most urgent situations. Tact and empathy are deeply ingrained in how the organization goes about its work. One of the side effects of this is that the decision-making process can be confusing-it is not always clear who is supposed to do what. But for me, the very experience of working with people constantly is extremely refreshing, and a great change from academic work. I also get to do what I most like doing, which is asking people questions and putting the information I get down on paper in as clear and elegant a manner as I can. These skills are really valued by the staff and I feel far more important to the organization than I ever felt in regard to the schools where I taught.
Grant writing is not a particularly rarefied skill. Anyone who knows how to state and defend an argument can do it. I've found organizational grants easier to write than the research grants I wrote as a graduate student. It helps a lot to have the reputation of a large organization working for you: many of the successful grants I have written have a lot more to do with the organization's reputation and personal contacts than with the content of the proposal itself. However, it still has to be decently written and designed, and most people either cannot do that or find it too tedious. It requires a certain attention to detail and good task management skills. One thing about Hands On Atlanta that might be slightly atypical of nonprofits is that it is an extremely-perhaps overly-growth-oriented organization with a fairly broad mission. As a result, it often feels like thirty things are happening at once around here. It takes some discipline to stick to the task at hand and some focus to prioritize among the dozen or so things that I'm supposed to do during any given week. Patience and an understanding of the various responsibilities that all of my co-workers have are very important; sometimes it takes a few days before I get answers to my questions, so I have just learned to plan in advance.
Although the organizational culture is extremely supportive, many of the same difficult conditions identified by Lee apply here. Turnover is very high, because people find jobs with higher pay and shorter hours. The atmosphere is very crisis-driven; it can be difficult to convince someone that something is really important until an hour before that thing has to be done. The flip side to the benign eclecticism of the organization is a fluidity and, occasionally, confusion about one's roles and responsibilities. The organization does not keep the best files (e.g. about previous meetings, contacts, and program impact), which can be frustrating when one is trying to cultivate a funding prospect or figure out what exactly a particular program has achieved. My pay is fairly low ($31,000), and the salaries range from the 20s to around $90,000. However, you can expect to make considerably more money in Development if you are willing to branch out into other areas of fund-raising (more on this below). For anyone with children, it can be very difficult to balance domestic responsibilities with the long hours and relatively low salaries involved in working here-and relatively few people with children work here.
III. BASIC OPTIONS AND BENEFITS
I find what Lee calls the non-hierarchical aspect of nonprofit work, as well as its emphasis on versatility and collaboration, to be extremely conducive to the way I like to work. However, I do not see fundraising as a vocation for me. I am not personally suited to do the kind of prospect research and cultivation that is needed to be a good fundraiser. I plan to get more involved in program management, which is why I have chosen to take on a new role here in chairing an environmental initiative. My dream job would involve a mix of advocacy, educational outreach, and fundraising for an organization involved in promoting alternative transportation and revitalizing urban communities (sorry-I know that's a bit of a mouthful). However, fundraising is a fascinating profession and I'd be happy to describe it at more length if anyone is interested. Perhaps most importantly, good fundraisers command very high salaries.
Everything that Lee said concerning the kind of people he works with applies to my co-workers. They are bright, articulate, and always willing to help. For me this has been an ideal transitional job. The drawback is that I cannot see myself moving significantly forward within this organization, and I'll probably have to seek new challenges somewhere else. But it has been a great introduction and skill-builder in non-profit work.
Douglas Stewart
PRIOR EXPERIENCE AND SELF-PRESENTATION
Subscriber HJ:
Hello All,
This question is primarily for Lee and Daveena. Do you think someone without a lot of outside experience would even have a chance at landing jobs like yours? Many of us have gone straight through school and have worked primarily in academia.
For Douglas: Of the three guests, you seem to match most closely with the type of student I describe (not much non-academic work experience). Aside from informational interviews, how did you learn about your job? In other words, did you have personal contacts, did you read the want ads?
For all guests: Did you have much trouble getting interviews? I find that simply getting in the door is the biggest problem because employers seem to see the PhD in English as a sign of woolgathering and lack of business sense. No amount of polishing of the cover letter and resume has worked yet. How did you present yourselves in these documents?
HJ
Douglas Stewart:
HJ--I learned about the opening for my job on idealist.org, which is a clearinghouse for nonprofit job openings. Opportunity NOCs is also a good source of information about jobs. I had no personal contacts, and the Ph.D. helped rather than hindered me.
My personal experience has led me to believe that an extensive background is by no means a liability in the nonprofit world. To the contrary, it demonstrates research, writing and communication skills that my organization really values. I tried to fashion my resume to emphasize these skills. In the future, I am going to place more stress on communication skills because I think those are particularly important. Teachers and former teachers tend to communicate and listen better than the average person, and I see over and over again how important and under-cultivated this skill is.
Hope this helps,
Douglas Stewart
Lee Polansky:
As for getting into a nonprofit w/o experience, my nonprofit has received job applications from Ph.D.'s. They are very smart and talented. No one will look at their resume, however, because they have no applicable experience. I've mentioned this in previous postings: if you want to do nonprofit work, or political work, or what-have-you, you must have *something* on your resume. So, intern, volunteer, work part-time in a relevant field.
My professional MA helps in D.C. But I also had plenty of work experience gained during my Ph.D. years. Yes, it slows you down. Which is partly why I'm ABD! But, otherwise, you're not going to distinguish yourself from the crowd. When I applied here (in response to a want ad) I was among 200 other applicants. Now that I have 4 years of experience, I have been interviewed for every job I've applied for.
Also, I'm a girl--not a boy (:
Lee
Paula Foster:
Lee, I am encouraged that you said in your introduction that you have "great hours." What do you mean by that? Can you describe a typical work week, in terms of hours?
Thanks,
Paula
Lee Polansky:
Paula: Oh-Oh. I was afraid someone would pick up on my comment about "great hours." I don't work fewer hours than most people, but I'm happy because I don't have to be at work at 9 a.m.!
I generally get in around 9:30--and work until about 6--about 8.5-9 hours a day. Occasionally, I'll work a very long day--12 hours or so, but that's very unusual. and I would guess that most of my co-workers work about the same number of hours as I do.
Lee
Paula Foster:
Lee wrote:
<As for getting into a nonprofit w/o experience, my nonprofit has received job applications from Ph.D.'s. They are very smart and talented. No one will look at their resume, however, because they have no applicable experience. I've mentioned this in previous postings: if you want to do nonprofit, or political, or what-have-you, you must have *something* on your resume. So, intern, volunteer, work part-time in a relevant field.>
Yet Doug wrote:
<An extensive [academic] background is by no means a liability in the nonprofit world. To the contrary, it demonstrates research, writing and communication skills that my organization really values. I tried to fashion my resume to emphasize these skills.>
I inserted the word "academic" there because reading that paragraph, it looked to me like that's what Doug was talking about. Maybe I was wrong. But if I wasn't wrong, then this brings up an interesting point. How much of the "no applicable experience" problem mentioned by Lee above is really just a matter of the "spin" one puts on one's academic experience in one's (nonacademic) resume? In other words, do we academics really have "no applicable experience," or do we just need to learn (like Doug apparently did) how to *describe* our experience in ways that more effectively showcase our relevant skills?
Paula
Subscriber SA:
Paula wrote:
<But if I wasn't wrong, then this brings up an interesting point. How much of the "no applicable experience" problem mentioned by Lee above is really just a matter of the "spin" one puts on one's academic experience in one's (nonacademic) resume? In other words, do we academics really have "no applicable experience," or do we just need to learn (like Doug apparently did) how to *describe* our experience in ways that more effectively showcase our relevant skills?>
Good point/question, Paula! While in grad school, I was always drawn either to volunteer or to work for nonprofits, mostly devoted to women's and/or queer concerns/issues. After six years of grad school, and four years of full-time higher ed teaching and research, I am itching to return to the nonprofit sector! Knowing how to market yourself and showcase your skills in your CV (um, I mean resume) and cover letter are very important. Also important is being able to offer a prospective nonprofit employer references from folks with whom you have worked/volunteered at other nonprofits. There's the rub, and that's one reason (among the many already mentioned) that it is important for anyone who does not have ANY nonprofit experience at least to volunteer a bit before jumping ship to full-time nonprofit org work.
I'm new to this list as of late last week, and am enjoying our discussion!
Thanks!
SA
Daveena Tauber:
In answer to your question about how to land jobs when your primary experience is in academia:
I feel ill qualified to answer this in a way because my jobs have always come through fortuitous accidents. However, I can suggest a few things:
1. I think the best way to get a job at a nonprofit is to start as a volunteer. Get to know the staff, show that you are interested in the issues they're working on. You'll pick things up around the office like "don't you wish we had someone to apply for that grant or organize our auction this year?" Present yourself as the person to do the jobs they need.
2. Any teaching experience is rife with organizational tasks, management, number crunching (if you do grades that way), tough decision making . . . in short all the skills you'll need in the workplace. Emphasize the skills and tasks that go into teaching and research because many employers need it spelled out for them.
3. Emphasize what you want in a job. I am always amazed by the power of enthusiasm. Your direct expression of desire for the job can be important. Also, interview back. Asking good questions can be important. Remember that you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you. "What kind of work environment do you have here--high paced, relaxed, informal, etc." or "How do you expect employees to handle difficult assignments?"
Hope this is useful.
Daveena
Subscriber GT:
Hi All,
As a humanities PhD working for a non-profit organization, I thought I'd share some of my own experiences with the list.
ME: My educational background is in literature. I received my Ph.D. in Comparative Literature from Princeton in September 1999. Two weeks later I started at my current position with the Woodrow Wilson National Fellowship Foundation (WWNFF).
MY EMPLOYER: WWNFF is an operating foundation working in the area of education. Basically, this means that, unlike the large foundations such as Ford, Mellon, Hewlett etc, the Woodrow Wilson Foundation does not have a large endowment from which it dispenses targeted largesse. In fact, the Foundation depends upon grants from the aforementioned (and many other) Foundations in order to operate the programs we run from here. Thus, it is safe to say, we are a non-profit organization, facing many of the issues as the myriad other non-profit organizations.
In other words, grant writing, development, and publicity are all very important to the work of the Foundation. Having said all that, many of you may know of the Foundation through any of a number of programs which actually *give out* sums of money to individuals or institutions. For example, the Foundation administers the Charlotte Newcombe Dissertation Fellowships in the area of ethics and religion, Women's Studies Dissertation Fellowships, Mellon Fellowships in Humanistic Studies etc. etc. And some of you may be familiar with the Humanities at Work initiative which incorporates a number of programs relevant to this list, all of which aim to expand career opportunities for graduate students and PhDs in the humanities. (Information about these programs is on our website at: http://www.woodrow.org/phd/ ) In almost all of these instances, the Foundation must first receive grants from Foundations or individuals in order to run these programs.
MY WORK: My own work is predominantly in the area of the Humanities at Work initiative and it involves a wide range of different activities including writing grant proposals, evaluating grant proposals, running and attending meetings, developing networks, publicity materials, giving conference presentations etc. The work is challenging, satisfying and varied. It is not entirely removed from academia, because many of the people I work with outside the Foundation are at universities, and many of the people who work here have PhD's, but the work is largely not "academic" or "scholarly," but rather action-centered and result-oriented. The Foundation runs programs in all areas of education from K-12 through to graduate education and beyond so I also have the opportunity to learn about areas in education with which I am less familiar.
NON-PROFITS: Others have articulated very well some of the attractions of working in the non-profit sector. The work can be very fulfilling and although the hours can at times be long one rarely finds onself begrudging those hours. And they certainly do not approach the kinds of hours lawyers, investment bankers, and management consultants seem to work. In addition, one has the opportunity of meeting and working with thoughtful, interesting people.
As others have noted too, I think that the "route" to a non-profit career will usually be circuitous or serendipitous or perhaps both. I do believe that the sector on the whole values graduate work, although some organizations may need to be persuaded that someone with a PhD is committed to a position which will often have limited financial compensation and perhaps not very high status. Certainly, in my view, the best way to pursue a career in the non-profit world is to get involved, as others have already explained. Internships, volunteer opportunities, part-time jobs and contracts, are very valuable ways to get involved and universities themselves can be good places to pick up experience, in the various offices such as Development, Student Services etc. Informational interviewing can also be very important and helpful. It enables you to learn about an organization, the types of things people do, and opportunities that you might well never have discovered. Most jobs are not advertised and so getting involved and speaking to a wide number of people is usually the best way to proceed.
I should probably draw to a close here, and I apologize for largely echoing what has gone before, but if I can take the liberty of ending with a "message," I think it would be one of optimism. The skills and knowledge developed in graduate programs in the humanities (and other disciplines) are valued in other contexts, and the variety of positions out there almost defies the imagination. I'd be happy to answer questions, either on or off-list, but my responses may be a little tardy compared with others on the list as I receive daily digests.
Best,
GT
Subscriber JY:
I have come to realize that getting a job has almost nothing to do with one's dissertation. It seems that the _other_ things you do are what makes you marketable. That's why if you want to work in academia you have to give papers, publish, sit on committees, and get lots of teaching experience. As for people I know with rewarding careers outside the academy, these careers have sprung from activities those people were involved with (usually in an unpaid capacity) as grad students, rather than from their dissertations. Examples: union activism, writing and editing, website management, music administration . . . I guess the key is to get involved with something that interests you and see where it leads.
As for writing resumes to showcase appropriate skills, I think that's vital too, and I'd be interested to know of any publications or websites that deal with this topic (specifically for academics and similar).
I'm also a new participant - and also enjoying the discussion!
JY
PART TIME, CONTRACT WORK, AND CONSULTING
Subscriber ND:
Hi,
I'm wondering if the guest speakers can comment on the possibilities for part time & contract work in their organizations, and the non-profit sector generally.
For example, what if one wanted to work for a non-profit organization, but either wanted other time to either teach part time, or do for-profit work that might pay the bills better, would there be a space for you? Or does one need to be committed full time+ at most of these organizations?
And, part two, do your organizations use many contract researchers/writers to work on a project for a set length of time and for a set price?
(The reason I'm asking is that I did do some work like this and quite liked it, the only problem with it as a career was I couldn't find enough of it - was I just not patient enough, or is there little to be had?)
Thanks!
ND
Daveena Tauber:
You can work for them as a contractor at first and perhaps land a job that way. In many smaller nonprofits turn-over is high because wages are low, so you may just find yourself in the right place at the right time. A warning about contracting: I've had several nonprofits ask me to work as a contractor even though what they really wanted was an employee. I don't recommend this. They save on takes and you eat it at tax time. If they want to hire you this way, make it clear that you will be charging more and setting your own hours, etc.
Daveena
Douglas Stewart:
I totally agree that some kind of track record in nonprofit service is important if you want to get a job in one. I did a lot of tutoring and mentoring in graduate school, and so I felt immediately comfortable in the culture of volunteerism at my organization. Addressing ND's question, the nonprofits I've been involved with are always looking for part-time help. For example, most nonprofits in this area can't afford a full-time grant writer, and either the staff (which usually means the Executive Director) writes the grants or they contract this out. There are many free-lance grant writers out there making a good living. My organization goes to pains to find work for people to do. People literally show up at our door asking how they can volunteer and we find something for each person. A sizable portion of our staff, including me, started here as volunteers. The flip side to this is that because so many people are new and because we are so non-hierarchical and "bottom-up" in our approach, a lot of organizational knowledge gets lost and we often find ourselves reinventing the wheel.
Douglas Stewart
Subscriber AT:
Here's a question about consulting related to non-profits. I have heard through my little grapevine of those academics considering 'crossing over' that there is high demand for consultants with Ph.Ds. However, most consulting through the big bucks firms is primarily for profit ventures. Do any of you out there know of consulting agencies that direct their efforts to the non-profit world? Or is most non profit consulting contracted on an individual basis?
In addition, and this may be politically incorrect, but what kind of pay (numbers please) can one expect for contract grant writing or project evaluation? Or how can i find out about this myself?
Thanks,
AT
Paula Foster:
AT, and others interested in contract work for nonprofits,
I took a one-day seminar in Proposal Writing last year (offered by the Foundation Center, a useful source of info on where to apply for grants), and the instructor, who had written the course text (an excellent hardcover book called _Proposal Writing_), was a full-time professional grant writer who worked on a contract basis for many different non-profits in New York. She looked busy, successful and happy.
Those who are interested in this line of work should plan to go back and read the "Careers in Consulting" discussion at some point and follow the leads therein to learn how to start a consulting practice. Even though your clients would be nonprofits, YOU would still be an independent consultant, working FOR profit (or at least a living wage) and dealing with the same issues that all consultants deal with (including marketing, billing, planning your business, and fee-setting so as to make the right amount of money for your situation). Like all successful consultants, you would have your own market niche, your own repeat clients, and your own menu of services that would appeal to your market niche.
The "Consulting" discussion, and all the others, can be read at
http://www.geocities.com/escapepod.geo/wrk4us-index.html
Paula Foster
Douglas Stewart:
AT,
I apologize for not responding to your queries earlier. I wish I could be of more specific help, but I can offer some basic information about nonprofit consulting and free-lance grantwriting (in the US, at least).
Nonprofits do use consultants to help them with things like devising their strategic plans and developing their Boards. The Nonprofit Resource Center is a nonprofit organization that offers these kinds of services to nonprofits all over the country, but there are also individuals who do it. The only for-profit consulting agencies I know of are fundraising consultants--here in Atlanta, there are a lot of them, and they are usually contracted to help with special fundraising campaigns.
I haven't free-lanced as a grant writer so I don't know what the pay range is. But I think veteran grants consultants command a very high rate, especially for six- or seven-digit grant proposals. However, it is always a flat rate rather than a commission.
Douglas Stewart
Subscriber RG:
AT--
As far as pay scale goes (and I am in a smaller city than Atlanta, remember), the freelance grant-writers we've used in the past invoice per hour (a maximum number of hours is contracted in the beginning, although that's negotiable if problems arise) and they are usually in the same range (here at least) as freelance computer techs and European car mechanics--around $45-$50/hour. My guess would be that in any city, the prices are consistent with other specialized hourly people, and European car mechanics and computer techs are listed in the phone book, so you could probably call to get hourly rates from them. Just a suggestion.
RG
DEVELOPMENT/FUNDRAISING
Subscriber MR:
These questions are primarily for Douglas Stewart: You stated that "different types of development work demand different types of workers/personalities." Could you discuss this in greater detail? Second, I'd like to hear more about fundraising as a profession. Third, is there a difference between "development" and "fundraising"? Fourth (and finally), if I'm interested in cause-related marketing/development for a certain cause, what advice would you give me about how to get into that? To be specific, I am absolutely passionate about swimming, as well as running/triathloning, and am interested in developing/promoting programs that would provide opportunities for those who historically have not had access to these sports (e.g., inner city, African-American, Latino, etc.). My other passion/idea is to develop/promote aquatics (swimming, water exercise) for the physically challenged. I know of individuals and organizations that are involved in these types of causes -- all of whom I could contact -- but want to find out how I could establish my own niche (ultimately) and start my own organization -- as well as whether or not I could make a living doing this sort of thing. Any ideas you (or others on the list) have would be great!
Thanks,
MR
Douglas Stewart:
MR--I think there are a lot of people who do development work behind the scenes. Although I help raise funds for my organization, I am not really a fundraiser because much of my work involves research and I never personally make an ask to funders. I can't really imagine making a career out of fundraising--it involves tons of phone calls, meetings with prospects, kissing up to volunteers with connections, etc. However, it shouldn't be confused with sales work. Directors of Development, Annual Campaign Managers, and Executive Directors actually spend much of their time finding the right people to make the big asks rather than making the asks themselves. It's all a matter of working the personal connections right. It's a pretty fascinating line of work, although way too focused on personal politics for me. Basically, securing from foundations involves a very different kind of work--more writing, more research about program impact, less personal contact--than raising funds from individuals and corporations. But individuals account for over 75% of the money donated to nonprofits, so you have to know how to do it if you want to make a career out of fundraising. I don't.
Your program to involve underserved youth in swimming and track sounds great. I know that Atlanta has an organization, the Atlanta Track Club, which runs exactly these kinds of programs. Does your town or city? I would do some research to find out what other local organizations are doing in this vein and whether you can work with them rather than trying to start your own nonprofit. If there aren't any comparable programs, then go for it! You can do all sorts of cause-related marketing around this kind of program. A place like the Nike Foundation would be all over this.
Douglas Stewart
Paula Foster:
Speaking of freelance grantwriting, now might be a good time to share some information about that one-day seminar I took last year called "Proposal Writing" and the freelance grantwriter who taught it. The "Proposal Writing" seminar was absolutely excellent; I would highly recommend it to anyone who has an interest in grantwriting as a career or a sideline. It costs about $179 (about average for one-day classes like this) and is offered by The Foundation Center several times a year in several geographical locations.
The Foundation Center is itself a nonprofit organization. Established in the 1950s and based in New York, its mission is to spread information to any and all NPOs/NGOs about where to get grants. http://fdncenter.org/
The "Proposal Writing" seminar is based on the content of that book I mentioned, which is a Foundation Center publication. Here's the complete citation:
_The Foundation Center's Guide to Proposal Writing_, Revised Edition. New York: The Foundation Center, 1997. ISBN 0-87954-703-0.
The preface explains the genesis of the book, and reveals that Jane Geever, the person who taught the seminar, is the book's co-author:
For many years, grantseekers using Foundation Center libraries and publications frequently asked us for help beyond the research into potential funders for their work. They wanted assistance in writing the proposal and advice on the proper way to submit it, given the widely differing policies and preferences among foundations and corporate grantmakers. To respond to this demand, in 1993 we commissioned Jane C. Geever and Patricia McNeill of the firm, J. C. Geever, Inc., to write this book for us, based on their many years of combined fundraising experience and on interviews with a great variety of grantmakers. This revised 1997 edition includes grantmaker responses to a new series of interview questions and excerpts from a new group of proposals to illustrate the text.
Jane Geever was as pleasant, intelligent and engaged with her subject as most of the better teachers I have seen in my academic career. Geever is apparently successful enough at professional grantwriting to train others, to have other grantwriters working for her or with her, and to have "written the book," literally, on Proposal Writing, at least as far as the Foundation Center goes. I believe she is based in Manhattan.
Geever seems like the type of person who might answer emails from pleasant strangers--but I have not emailed her myself so I don't know that for a fact. She certainly can't be that hard to locate: in Manhattan, J.C. Geever, Inc. I imagine the book itself can be purchased directly from the Foundation Center.
Good luck, all you grantwriters out there,
Paula Foster
OPPORTUNITIES FOR NON-NATIVE SPEAKERS?
Subscriber DS:
These are some questions primarily for Douglas - I guess.
How did your market yourself when you applied as a grant writer, i.e. how did you try to convince people that your academic writing skills would be applicable to the job of a grant writer (did you have to do this at all?).
Does somebody proofread what you've written? I'm asking because I am not a native speaker of English and still oftentimes feel insecure about my writing. Could you comment on what the chances of getting a job like yours, or maybe also others, in non-profits are for non-natives who are not 100% proficient in English? I would think there are quite a few of us out there.
Thanks for putting this together. I have found it very helpful!
DS
Douglas Stewart:
DS--I basically convinced my organization of my ability to write grants by offering to do it for free for 6 weeks. The development department at the time was pretty frazzled, nobody had any time to write grants, so they were more than willing to give the job to a volunteer with an English Ph.D. If you can afford it (a big if, I know), an internship is a great way for somebody with no prior experience to prove their worth. Various people in the organization review each grant and pitch in their thoughts. No grant is an individual production, it's usually a patchwork of previous grants, reports, and notes. Being a non-native speaker shouldn't be too much of an issue if one has a good command of grammar and punctuation. At the same time, I wouldn't expect any of my colleagues to have the time or the energy to proofread my work for grammatical mistakes. That's my responsibility.
Douglas Stewart
NONPROFIT JOB HUNTING EXPERIENCES
Paula Foster:
A little bird tells me that there are several people on this list who have just recently done NP/NGO job hunts. I understand some of these people were successful and have recently started work.
Would those people, including those who did not get jobs, please kindly chime in here and share their experiences of the job-search and interviewing process? It would be helpful to hear about that experience from people who have recently gone through it.
Also, anyone else out there who is actually working at a nonprofit but who happens not to be a Guest Speaker, please, go ahead and share your experiences with us. What's it like to work where you work?
Paula Foster
Subscriber ES:
I am director of development (aka fundraiser, advancement officer) for the College of Sciences and Arts at a medium-sized technological university. Prior to that I was Dean of Students and Director of Student Support Services at a small private college.
Although I came into this job with only grant writing as my formal, professional experience, I had practically a full page of community service involvement including past president of a United Way, library friends, community education foundation, women's shelters, etc. I agree with previous contributors to the list that community service enhances chances of landing jobs with non-profits. It's a natural networking vehicle, and you get to see and be seen by potential employers. Even the smallest college has some sort of advancement or development function. Fundraising isn't for everybody, but there are many different types of jobs within the organization including researcher, foundation relations, alumni relations, special events planner, planned giving, scholarship coordinator. Naturally the bigger bucks go to Executive Directors.
RR, I'm a mid-life career changer too (mid-fifties). I expect to have my Ph.D. by the end of the year and am trying to decide what difference the Ph.D. will make in my career choice. I'm loving this list because of the strong sense of community and support, and the wonderful resource and information sharing.
Thank you, Paula, for making this possible.
ES
Subscriber VT:
Chiming in from Canada, in response to Paula's request that we share some of our experiences (I'm enjoying the discussion and finding it helpful; thanks!) -- I completed my PhD in social & educational studies in 1999, and have always been more interested in working in the community than in the academy. In addition to working on several research projects & conducting my own critical social research, however, I also obtained considerable teaching experience while completing my dissertation.
Last year I began to market myself as a consultant to non-profit and government offices associated with my areas of interest & expertise (child & youth advocacy). I was met with the enormous gap between research & practice, and between being an "academic" and being a practitioner. The sense I got was territorial: You're an academic; you don't belong here; this is our turf; and so on. I did manage to get two small research contracts but had to continue as a sessional instructor to pay the rent.
I had a problem with the type of research I ended up being involved with. One of the courses I teach is social research methods & ethics, but here I was being confronted with highly questionable research methods & research ethics! I was not involved in the original research designs and was essentially hired to collect data that conformed to the predetermined outcome/agenda of others. I won't go into the myriad problems this situation presented except to say that I was [1] doing bad research -- using instruments that allowed only certain types of responses -- and [2] collecting some data [I became somewhat subversive] that actually challenged the pre-set agendas and was, therefore, ignored. I vowed to avoid doing other peoples' research in future.
This summer I am re-marketing myself to non-profit organizations -- with a tighter focus on programs for children & youth -- as a program consultant (development, reviewuation, rejuvenation), workshop instructor (ethics, social justice, educational values, etc.), and a social researcher (including lit reviews, grant proposals, etc.) but I will only conduct research if I have control or involvement in all phases. I am getting some serious interest and hope during the Fall to have some small jobs lined up. I have applied for a few nonprofit staff positions over the past two years but, again, my sense is that the PhD can be intimidating and that I am perceived as an "academic," when what they want (perhaps understandably) are social workers who have had 15 years of hands-on experience out in the field. I should mention that I am 55, female, with a strong business background in administrative (10 yrs) & artistic endeavours (10 yrs) before returning to university as a mature student. Even with my business background -- which included coordinating large projects and running my own business -- and 20 years as a volunteer child & youth advocate, 7 years of conducting research involving children & youth, and 4 years teaching future school teachers about social justice issues affecting the lives of children & youth (sexism, racism, classism, homophobia, stereotypes, violence, etc.), I'm a sociologist and not a social worker and I don't get the job.
I don't want an academic career and I believe my best bet is to work as an outside consultant/researcher in ways that make my PhD an asset & not a liability.
VT
Lee Polansky:
All:
Focus on "optimism." Today I received a job offer at a very prestigious quasi-federal agency--and I'll be turning them down for various reasons. Furthermore, I know that I'll have future offers to consider, and ones that offer more money and better vibes.
So--here I am, ABD, with less than 4 years non-profit experience--and my supervisor was *very* glad to hear that I'll be staying. I didn't mention this in my first posting: although I am not a department director at my current non-profit, from very early on, my opinion was solicited and taken seriously. This is very important to me. Why do people here ask me what I think? 'Cause I'm smart. And, anyone doing a Ph.D. is SMART.
I've had input into most facets of the organization, including policy. And, I've made a difference in our organization's direction.
It hasn't been easy--I had to struggle to get my first job in Washington, and I took this job out of desperation. But, hey, take a chance, why not?
Lee
Subscriber OI:
WRK4USers,
In light of the recent discussion, I thought I'd share my recent experience in - nearly (?)- landing a job.
I am well-along in my dissertation research and have significant draft sections of dissertation chapters on paper; I'm hoping to begin work (before defending) sometime in the Spring of 2001.
Ideally, I'd like to work for a policy-oriented environmental non-profit, so I decided last month to pen a cover letter and introduce myself to a well-respected group with both a local (NY metro) and a national presence. I took some time and composed a solid cover letter that articulated my concerns/interests/motivations, and, I thought, highlighted the extent to which my experiences in grad school would prove applicable to the sort of work they would expect of me.
The cover letter worked: the organization contacted me within a week to schedule an interview. The first interview went well and I was scheduled for a series of follow-ups with the specific folks for whom I would be working.
At this point, I began to realize that perhaps I had not thought my plan through carefully: the organization was looking to fill an immediate opening, while I wished merely to BEGIN a job search, while devoting the remainder of the year to full-time dissertation work.
The other personal interviews went relatively well, however, and I thought there was still a good chance I'd be offered the position (which I would have taken of course, had they been able to wait until spring). They seemed to be selling ME the job at times, highlighting its particular satisfactions, including specific benefits as well as the job's more intangible rewards.
I was not, alas, offered the job. I suspect that this personal time frame, along with my relative inexperience (I do have SOME volunteer non-profit experience) and my status as an unknown quantity with "only" academic work to my credit eventually led them to decide I was not currently the best fit for the job. (Readers please feel free to speculate aloud as well - I'd be interested in your own thoughts as to why I was unsuccessful.)
What I understand now is that I should have looked into the sort of volunteer/internship opportunities that many of you have been suggesting, rather than inadvertently presenting myself as a ready candidate to fill an immediate full-time position.
Nevertheless, I am now planning my post-doc career search more carefully and I'm looking into the very sort of volunteer opportunities others have suggested. Not only will this help strengthen my cv, but it will enable me to gain more insight into the daily work involved with not-for-profit enterprises while giving me an opportunity to "shop around" among several organizations.
I DO have another question for the list at large: given that I was initially an attractive candidate for the position and presumably will -- after gaining more experience -- be an even stronger one, how might I eventually RE-contact this organization if so inclined in the future? I assume that I'm not precluded from doing so, but I'm not sure how to go about it when I'm ready. Thanks in advance for any comments,
OI
Subscriber JS:
That's a great story -- thanks for sharing it with us. I think you should be very encouraged and gratified that you made it so far along in the process, especially since you weren't looking for an immediate position.
If I were in your shoes, I'd make use of those contacts again when you're closer to finishing. The way I'd go about it would be to approach one of your contacts and ask for an informational interview. Explain that you're completing your degree, that you've done some serious development in the career field (which, it sounds like you will have) and would greatly appreciate some input or feedback. Ask them to lunch, etc. This is a great way to re-connect, get some good info, and learn about any opportunities at that org. As a bonus, they'll keep you in mind if any of their colleagues at other organizations are looking to fill openings.
Good luck!!
JS
Douglas Stewart:
OI, I really enjoyed and learned from your posting about your job search. It sounds like you did a great job of presenting your skills, and there's no telling why they chose somebody else. It's true that volunteering is important to establishing a track record in any given non-profit field, but at the same time if an opening like that comes along again I would go for it and not worry too much about experience. If you can find some time to intern part-time with the Sierra Club or another policy-oriented nonprofit while you're working on your dissertation, you'll be putting yourself in an excellent position to land a great job. It sounds like you're already working on that, though!
Good luck,
Douglas
INTERNSHIP PROBLEMS
Subscriber OI:
Yet another belated non-profit related question: I seem to be having unanticipated difficulty in obtaining a volunteer/intern position that I can do part-time while I continue my dissertation work: I am being told that I am overqualified. Any suggestions on getting around this objection?
OI
Subscriber JJ:
At least in my experience the problem is employers, even for volunteer positions, might be worried about how committed you will be to the work.
JJ
Subscriber EK:
Or they might worry that you don't understand how menial the work will be, or that you will lord it over them with your superior education. I'd emphasize that you understand what the work entails and are interested in getting to know the field.
EK
Subscriber ES:
OI,
Did you identify specifically what you can do for your target agency?
I am surprised that an agency would be reluctant to accept your offer to help. If you have researched the agency and have a good idea of what they need and how your talents can be used to meet their needs, I see no reason why you can't package yourself as a gift to them.
Of course, if the management is disorganized, they would consider it too much trouble to have a smart young (?) upstart telling them how to do their job better.
If you seriously want to be at a particular organization, you will need to court them, and demonstrate that you will not be a threat or problem child. Study them some more. And if they seriously don't want you, find yourself another placement. You probably wouldn't be happy there if they don't embrace the gift you offer.
ES
PROGRAM MANAGEMENT
Subscriber DS:
Douglas - You said in the beginning that you'd like to become more involved in program management. What does this kind of work involve? How does one qualify for it, i.e. what skills are needed and could somebody in academia claim to have these skills (i.e. would experience in curricular design qualify one for this task)?
DS
Douglas Stewart:
DS,
Thank you for your question about nonprofit program management. It's fairly easy to get involved with this through volunteering. Most social service organizations need volunteers to make phone calls to other volunteers, to help with mailings and other kinds of outreach, as well as to provide direct services to their clients. They might have a phone tree, and need people to coordinate volunteers on a particular branch of that. Or, as in my organization, they might be seeking project coordinators to serve as liaisons between the volunteers and the agencies whom we partner with. Finding people willing to put in the necessary time to coordinate volunteers is a major need of organizations such as mine, and in Washington, D.C. I imagine the same is true for others. (For example, one of our "sister" organizations is DC Cares in Washington, and I would not be surprised if they are recruiting for project coordinators for their fall serve-a-thon at this very moment.) Even more so than in other kinds of nonprofit work, volunteering and, especially, offering to help manage other volunteers is the best way of getting your foot in the door here.
I think teaching and curriculum development is a very good preparation for this kind of work. You have to set a timetable, annual goals, and clear expectations of your volunteers and clients (just like for your students). You have to be able to handle and prioritize multiple tasks. You need to feel comfortable managing people and delegating tasks. Based on your teaching experience and whatever volunteer experience you have and/or develop, this could be a very good match.
Douglas Stewart
Lee Polansky:
And here's my two cents on program management from an "advocacy" organization. We have three types of programs: 1) lobbying at the state and federal level; 2) "field" programs, including sending staff to college campuses to talk about our issues and to offer training sessions; using volunteers to table at events; and 3) education, which includes teacher training. Doug is right, as with everything else about getting into a field, volunteering and/or interning provides an excellent way to gain entre into program management. Another possibility--if one isn't fed up with formal classwork--is to consider field-specific classes.
Lee
Subscriber ZP:
It is my observation that (project management) is not widely practiced among nonprofit organizations and that the performance of many nonprofit organizations would improve if the managers and program staff knew and used project management tools and techniques. I'd like your comments on this.
If this is correct, then is there is a market for instruction/training in project management?
Cheers,
ZP
Subscriber ES:
ZP,
I would say "probably so".
ES
NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS
In the following discussion on Leaving Doors Open to Academia, a speaker brings up Non-Governmental Organizations. Below are the questions Paula asked to get some clarification on just what NGOs are and the responses she received from subscribers.
Paula Foster:
What are Non Governmental Organizations (NGOs) and why do they exist? Do we have any here in the States? Wouldn't any non-profit, community outreach agency, organization, or association be considered NGO?
Paula
Subscriber EK:
NGOs are what Americans call foreign nonprofits. So while US nonprofits are technically non governmental orgs (so are businesses, for that matter), people typically don't call them that.
EK
Subscriber ND:
Sorry everyone--I forgot that the US doesn't really use that term (NGO) for non-profit organizations. In Canada it generally refers to internationally-oriented non-profit groups such as those interested in poverty reduction or respect for human rights around the world. Although it may not be correct, I've also heard it used almost interchangeably with non-profit organization (this may be because NGO is much quicker and neater to say or write).
ND
Subscriber SU:
I'd feel quite comfortable / normal using the term "NGO". In Asia one almost grows up on the term. There are literally millions of them, vying for whatever multi-lateral aid is available for developmental research. And always ready to slant their stated objectives to be in line for any aid possibilities. Check that the UN has a whole department for registering NGOs. But that's another world. (I have heard folks use the term VA - Voluntary Agency, too).
Also, it has become quite fashionable for senior academics (and even retired bureaucrats) to start an NGO/VA. For various reasons . . . as a tax shelter, to fund research associates, to be able to (continue to) rub shoulders with the international research elite. Most of these offer a safe refuge for a fresh-out-of-the-carton PhD. . . who ends up doing most of the research, writing and preparing PowerPoint stuff, while looking for tenure track. The boss makes the international rounds. Its a pretty symbiotic thing.
Regards,
SU
LEAVING DOORS OPEN TO ACADEMIA
Subscriber LM:
Lee, thanks for sharing your story with the list. My question for you is how you have dealt/are dealing with the issue of finishing your dissertation. From what I can piece together from your posting, it sounds like you have been in grad school for some time, at the ABD stage. Does Emory have a "clock" limiting how long you can take to finish? And if so, are you worried that you will not finish the dissertation, simply because your full-time non-academic work is too time-consuming?
This question isn't related to the non-profit sector, just non-academic work in general, but I'd appreciate any thoughts you might have.
Thanks,
LM
Lee Polansky:
Yes, I've been ABD for a while, and yes, I hate it. I'm currently writing the very last section. My advisor has been very supportive; my understanding is that as long as your "progressing," the school gives you the benefit of a doubt. I would not recommend doing it this way--get as much as possible done before you do the full time thing! It's been very tough for me.
Lee
Subscriber WD:
Dear all,
This discussion is terrific. Many thanks for it! I received my Ph.D. in 1999 in a little-known field called Performance Studies. I worked in human rights while a grad. student because I was frustrated by the limitations many of you have pointed to with academia, and wanted to get non-profit work experience in the event I decided to leave. I am now applying for jobs in two realms--academia and international NGOs, Non-Governmental Organizations, (my diss. was on human rights, Guatemala and refugees in the U.S.) I'd appreciate advice from anyone who has tried to balance two job searches, particularly in relation to the dilemmas you confronted and solutions you came up with in regards to timing (academic searches typically take much longer than non-profit) and fit. By fit, I mean that as a graduate student, I've received a lot of support for the advocacy I've done with asylum seekers and would love to continue this work as a teacher/scholar. However, I'm too impatient to be on the academic job market for a third year (this is my second), and I am exploring what non-profits I can be a part of that will allow me to contribute to similar kinds of work. So, my hope is that by interviewing (informationally and for jobs) with a range of int'l NGOs, I'll find a few that will be interested in my pursuing refugee-related research and advocacy, and will help me improve my skills/knowledge in this area.
My request for advice about timing and fit leads to a final question: how true is it that once someone's left academia, they no longer have a chance of returning to academia (the whole "tainted by the real world" factor)? I noticed some of you actually have returned to teaching after working in a non-profit. I love teaching, and would still like to leave that door open. This question comes up because of the possibility that if I am successful in my int'l NGO search, then I may be offered a position (I should be so lucky!) before I've learned of the outcomes of my academic job searches. I am still trying to figure out what I would like to do, and am fearful of shutting doors before I'm clear that I no longer want to walk through them. Any thoughts you all have would be much appreciated.
Best,
WD
Subscriber GT:
Once again, the discussion on the list is excellent--a credit to Paula's management and the generosity and thoughtfulness of guests and list members. I just had a brief suggestion in response to WD's question about Human Rights. One place that might offer some valuable answers to some of your questions is the Human Rights Program of the University of Chicago. They are committed both to scholarship and inquiry on the issues of Human Rights, but also to the intersection of scholarship and action/activism. Their the web address: http://humanities.uchicago.edu/cis/hr http://humanities.uchicago.edu/cis/hr Best, GT
Subscriber ND:
Just a thought to throw out there for the guest speakers and for others . . .
What WD and others commented on was a bias in some academic circles against people who've had several years of a 'career' outside of academic walls and against people with strong interests outside of their academic research and teaching. From my limited experience of grad school and part-time teaching at big research institutions, and campus interviews at smaller, teaching oriented schools, I think that a smaller, teaching-oriented liberal arts school--or at least the two I visited--would still be interested in someone who had done something interesting and different, such as worked for Amnesty International or with a think tank in Washington. These schools are interested in exposing their students to a broader world and I expect would welcome faculty who can help line up trips, internships and visitors--that I had some leads for exchanges in Mexico really intrigued one small school I interviewed at.
The research-oriented schools, by contrast, would likely be worried that you would be too distracted by other interests to publish in your field of hire, and therefore either wouldn't make tenure, or if you did, wouldn't advance the department enough (there would also be the petty personal crap of people not wanting someone who makes them look bad--but that aside, they would have reasonable grounds to doubt your commitment to their department).
The downside of the smaller schools: Many (most?) smaller teaching schools are in places where there is not much going on NGO-wise. They are in small towns, often many hours drive from a bigger city. Because of my personal interests in almost everything International and multicultural, I knew that I personally could not happily live in these towns nor really relate to 19-year-old students who had never been outside the state of Minnesota. But if after a short career in non-profits one wanted to resurrect teaching, I think these places would be more receptive than bigger schools.
Does anyone else have some ideas or insight into this issue?
ND
Paula Foster:
If it's teaching per se that you love, not the whole tenure-track academic scene, perhaps you could teach a course now and then as an adjunct. That would certainly be a positive in the eyes of your nonacademic contacts, and it would allow you to the flexibility to step into and out of the classroom pretty much whenever you want. (Am I oversimplifying?)
Paula
Lee Polansky:
As an informed opinion on a return to the academy after a real world stint, I would say that ND is right on target. Unless you're a practitioner/social science type (e.g., a former congressman who would like to teach a poli-sci course at Harvard) I believe that most research universities would not be impressed with a sabbatical from academia--in fact, I think they would discourage it. I have never heard of anyone doing this who obtained a tenure track job.
The other matter to consider is how *difficult* it is establish a reputation while you're in your respective field, and how you must keep ahead of the curve in order to gain tenure--the papers, the conferences, the book(s), etc. It's very difficult to do those things when you're working a demanding 9-to-5. Of course, new Ph.D.'s in the academy also have demands--but they *have* to publish, etc. to survive. We don't. Nor are we surrounded by the intellectual environment that encourages working on your own "stuff."
When I left academia as an ABD in '96, I planned to just finish the dissertation, and not continue on in history. For various reasons, however, I eventually decided to remain active in the field. And I have done so. But, the time I use to publish or present has taken time from the dissertation. While e-mail has made keeping in touch easier, it's still hard for me to get feedback on my work and to find people to *talk* about stuff I'm thinking about and about current work.
Lee
Subscriber FP:
Daveena's brilliantly thought-provoking introductory posting got me to thinking about the linkage between several seemingly unrelated problems I've seen or faced among women, specifically her comment about evironmental activism's glass ceilings ("dishes, dusting are OK") preventing some (non young white guys) from reaching positions powerful enough to *effect change* (apologies to those of you young white guys who are "just men in an unjust world." I'm married to one of you, & you *are* appreciated).
Specifically, the relationship of non-profit/political sector to other marketplace sectors' ceilings seem based less on previous academic orientation than on academia/humanities/arts background *plus* (1) gender or (2) race/gender or (3) age/gender or (4) combined age/race/gender/other 'outside' factors. This w/be a long posting so those of you not interested best close out now.
Call me nuts but gender seems to be the constant in this, exacerbated by other 'problems.' Here's what came to mind:
-In policy/non-profits and law: Lani Guinier's expose of U Penn's Law school underperformance of non-white AND white women though this group tested/graded into Penn @ same level on matriculation. Lots of humanities majors who want to continue past undergraduate school are interested in humanities but choose law, hoping to take this to non-profit/public sector, and effect change for humanities/arts issues via that route.
-the race/gender hurdle of marginalization from top positions in political activist groups as far back as 70s but *continuing* through today as Daveena shows, that, 20 yrs later will have a delayed effect of holding back women (of color or white) from having large enough resumes to get nominated or otherwise connect to power positions & accomplish change at policy level.
-perfect example of the 'feeder' problem from not-enough women moving to legal/environmental/corporate/academic power slots in last decade is the race/gender/age hurdle remaining today in both Gore's & Bush's excuse that the 'pool' of good VP candidates was simply to small to seriously include women (blacks or other minorities) who weren't too old or too young (hmmm- compare Feinstein's 'too-old' age w/Leiberman's).
-sub-discipline of arts/humanities: classical music's continuing gender bias against top chairs in orchestras, conductor slots etc (foreign/very young/physicaly challenged folks have a 'hook' in minds of those in power and escape the problem).
-my mother's combined age/gender hurdle returning to classical music in midlife that was less problematic for my (same-age) dad, the age/gender fear even here in WRK4US discussions - only 1of 4 guests in a previous discussion ventured to answer one woman's inquiry regarding academics who are not in their 20s returning to work force (even though LOTS of us are returning to academia and the workforce and ARE facing callbacks and callback problems that, if placed in a table, would show age/gender correlates).
This translates to arts/humanities folks - esp when we are women, esp when we are no longer 20-something - being guilty of pulling up the drawbridges behind us, rather than including/mentoring those of us differing from ourselves by race, gender or age...
As a late-40s white woman adding academia and arts backgrounds to the race/gender/age 'problems' in policy areas where we seek to help affect change, I'd suggest you are a *perfect* candidate to help rock the boat in a major way. How? Turn your additional "problems" into a source from which to draw and go after some big fish in area(s) important to you. Ignore the small-minded fish too ignorant to realize what you can do for us all in evironmental/educ/other area(s).
Daveena, my take is that you should *not only* go into policy making &/or politics, but you should skip over the small fish described above and go directly to places where your interests can translate into an upward curve of policy-affecting decision making, by groups/powerful individuals who consciously appreciate your talents and hurdle-overcoming abilities. As one who's on the beginning of that curve but attempting w/some success to do this now, I've some ideas if you/other subscribers feeling this way want to contact me.
FP
Subscriber RR:
Hi
I've been enjoying this discussion and have gotten lots of good information from it. I have two questions for the group.
First, I'm a mid-life career changer. Prior to becoming a social scientist, I worked for many years in business, primarily as a business manager for small newspapers. I feel like I have good management skills (as well as research and writing skills) to bring to an organization, but am wondering about the willingness of organizations to bring on someone who is older (late 40's, early 50's) and who may be new to their particular field. Can anyone speak to this issue?
Also, how likely is it that one might find a good non-profit job in cities other than D.C? It seems like so many organizations are based in DC and I'm not sure that I'm willing to make that move at this stage of my life--what kinds of local resources would you suggest for pursuing jobs in other places? (Other than working your own networks, of course.)
Thanks, RR
Subscriber RG:
RR,
The non-profit that I work with has traditionally hired for upper level/"management" positions out of your age cohort (40's-50's). Just as a guess, I would say that non-profits, because they depend more on finesse than on the brilliant marketing ploys (associated with the young and restless) are more receptive to that age bracket. I have also worked the "small newspaper" route and would say from my experience you'd probably have more luck with the non-profits now than with those newspapers, whose staffs grow increasing younger. Many, many non-profits, after all, are primarily concerned with impressing grant agencies/government agencies, whose power elite are much closer to your age than to a rising young star's, and that really matters. Most of the people my non-profit has brought on in the $40-$70,000 range were over forty. Agencies that receive grants have to have immediate results to keep their funding; age and experience (even slightly outside the field) are valued more than potential brilliance that might not develop in time. (That's not to say that many non-profits aren't focusing on a young, hip image that would count many of us out, of course.)
As regards having to move to DC . . .
Keep in mind that many non-profits, ours for instance, are very locally/regionally based. Our funding comes from the DC, but since we work with Appalachian schools, our main office is in KY, and we have several field offices in much smaller college towns across the region.
If this university is any indication, you can find non-profits, and several of them, anywhere you find a large research university, who help sponsor these agencies in exchange for the "indirect costs" money they receive from the granting agency. I would think one very useful way of finding a non-profit in your area, especially if you're still associated with a university, is to get hold of your campus phone book. Look under departments and programs and, mixed in with the academic departments, are probably several non-profits operating in offices right there on campus. It may not be exactly what you want, but it's a great place to start, and at least one of our employees (who was expatriating from academia) moved straight from his department to ours, in a lateral transfer. He kept all his university-accrued vacation, sick-time, and benefits...
RG
Subscriber CW:
Since it quite common nowadays for one to spend several years post-Ph.D. searching for a tenure-track academic position in the Humanities, given the wretched job market and intense competition for every such job, and since it often now requires tenure packet credentials (several publications, including first book, and extensive teaching experience, preferably full-load) to land an assistant professorship, is there any sign that the "absence from academe" stigma is abating? And I mean even in terms of positions in large, research universities. If one is actively involved in the field, currently researching, writing, publishing, and teaching, what difference should it make when the Ph.D. was finished?
There is a sexist element to this stigma: I was nine months pregnant and had a preschooler already when I finished my Ph.D. Two and a half years later I had a third child, yet was still publishing all the while. However, subsequent family situations (financial, educational, personal) forced a break in my academic work. By what rationale does such a break render me brain-dead in the future? I am very frustrated that such prejudice is still allowed in Academe, while all other types of discriminatory barriers have fallen. My grandmother was 101 years old when she died, and she was still translating Russian well into her 90s. Why should this discriminatory bias against middle-aged scholars be allowed?
Frustrated
Subscriber FP:
CW,
I am truly sorry I missed seeing your note during the 'official' discussion on breaking into non-profits as it felt as though most others did not address the issue after my lengthy email on Daveena's feeling that non-profits often offered women volunteers 'dusting and dishes'- but was glad to see your message, even now, as it tells me I'm not nuts in sensing an unspoken age/gender bias.
In case anyone still has any doubts of the veracity of your experience, they should look up in Lexis the obit of late CA chief justice Rose Bird (fought for consumers - voted out of office thx to big money lobbies pretending her sin was overturning death penalties; retired on $1000/mo while supporting her mom; died of cancer recently), who, on volunteering at a legal clinic during retirement was never asked what she could *best* help with, but was assumed to be without skills and was assigned as the non-profit's photocopy woman, until months later a bigshot judge happened in and pointed her out to the head honchos of the (law) non-profit.
Here's my (lengthy) take on your email. Again - those not interested - I'm gonna be long-winded. fair warning.
You should be commended for commenting on this, and not ignored. Keep it up even if you are ignored, and also comment/write to others besides this discussion group:
--Our seeing sexism/etc and repeatedly commenting on it, I believe, is an important first step to eventual acknowledgement of this combined 'taint' by others. Women who are 'immune' while young/without children/not absent for any length of time from their academic institution while addressing their *lives* will only later stumble over this hurdle - but most of us will, eventually. So they need to hear this now. Men remain generally 'immune' because - well, guys, you're guys. (But hey we love you.) So they need to hear this, as it often falls below well-meaning men's radar.
Why keep up the comments? The age/gender barrier (and the concommitent taint of women's intermittent absence from academia) can only be broken down if its existence is acknowledged by first ourselves and then by those institutions we confront, so the more we folks push the existence of such a barrier into the forefront of others' consciousness, the better.
--Meanwhile, my own *solutions* to not feeling defeated by it? They stem from Linda Hirshman's outstanding suggestions for navigating the treacherous reefs of the notoriously elitist, sexist, & agist legal community ("A Woman's Guide to Law School" - is not only a fabuous indictment but a real guerrilla manual for forcing change). They are:
(1) Search out and actively use resources that have done gender/age studies. The academic group for musicians, for instance, had such a database analyzing institutions hiring women/comaparative pay structures etc of women within academe. (I was a professional orch musician for 25 years before returning to grad school in poli sci) (2) Let potential places know you are *aware* of what studies have unearthed about their institution - whether good or ill. It may indeed be a seller's market (do I have the right metaphor?) but if we succumb to the seller's market scenario our position will remain weak - rather, seems best to remember we are interviewing these places as much as they are interviewing us. Affirmative action may be under seige but it doesn't hurt to remind institutions we're not too stupid to notice blant sexism. Hirshman encourages prospective students (consumers - but this can apply to prospective faculty) to ask outright: how many tenured women faculty? How many 'visiting/associate/adjunct'? (i.e., imply you know these women are stuck in lowere echelons) What's the gender ratio of students at the institution as a whole? Job placement by gender following graduation? (Does the institution care about its women grads - implicates their position about women faculty and vice versa.)
Why? Enough women with guts - or perhaps even only one - can turn the tide in the mindset of hiring committees. And hey, if the institution isn't tenuring women anyway, there's little to lose on a personal level by pointing out that it's been noticed.
(3) Actively seek out places that prior research (yours/others) shows affirming rather than penalizing women for our 'taint' of absence, children, age...
Why? Hey, we want to succeed, and push as we might in tough places, we'll accomplish more in an environment where we are appreciated.
(4) Long term? Here's my spiel: Find time to get outside your personal academic passions and become involved. They were wrong about Virginia Woolf being an 'interior' writer: the personal *is* political, and women ignore politics at our personal risk. Let your local, state and federal representatives know that you are watching their votes, AND *actively* work to defeat those not making equity an issue of importance *at least* at the local level (or worse, those who give lip service and then make deals that exclude women from local governance). Support your local women who are making forays into politics and let your interest be known. (Lack of vigilance translates at fed level to white male congressmen who've stonewalled a *huge* percentage of Clinton's women/minority judicial nominees. The result will be more of Reagan/Bush's abysmal record on judical equity.) I strongly believe that our problems in the academy are related to our problems in the workforce and in law, the judiciary and policy. Ahhhh that felt good.
Thanks for writing - validation is *good* - and apologies for feeling talkative again - at least its only 2nd time in this summer's discussions! (Thank you Paula!)
Best of luck FP
Subscriber CW:
FP,
Thanks for your message--yes, the lack of response to my query surprised me. I did receive one supportive off-list response from an academic woman who is just about to defend and enter the academic job market and did not want anyone to identify her. Which just confirmed my suspicion that this inherently sexist (academic women must behave like men and not bear children or have domestic/artistic/nurturing/non-cerebral interests/obligations outside academe) and age discrimination which is still rampant in academe is the last dirty little secret. Those vulnerable to this discrimination are afraid to confront it for obvious reasons, but of course such avoidance of the issue will only perpetuate it. Sadly, it is often women who have achieved in academe by following these unwritten rules and denying parts of their identity who are most vociferous about defending this bias.
Fortunately, since I have chosen to cultivate and express the nurturing and domestic and artistic as well as intellectual parts of myself, I will not be devastated and my identity will not be destroyed if I don't acquire a tenure-track faculty position. But I believe it is academe's loss as well as that of nontraditional scholars when such discrimination flourishes.
CW
Daveena Tauber :
I'm glad my writing on the list opened the question of sexism in nonprofits, but I want to make it clear that by no means all of my experiences have been similar. I should also make it clear that I have been treated shittily by women as well as male employers. Likewise, I have had great mentors of both genders. My take is that the "alternative" world is not more immune, though perhaps more conscious to the drag of sexism, racism, etc. The environmental movement in particular has a certain history of its own in terms of gender, race, and class history that needs to be taken into account. I merely experienced one aspect of this problem. I certainly didn't mean to damn the whole of the non-profit world or to suggest that anyone who hasn't experienced such a thing is stupid. Some of my greatest environmental heros are women.
Thank you all for taking this issue seriously.
Daveena Tauber
Subscriber PT:
Reading this, I was reminded of the recent Ms. Mentor column on the on-line Chronicle in which a female Ph.D. asked what she should do about her adviser who, while discussing her dissertation with her, did "exercises" for his back consisting of pelvic thrusts. Ms. Mentor suggested that she basically do nothing about "Dr. Pelvic," get her Ph.D., and fight sexism later on once she was a faculty member herself. Ms. Mentor was called to task for that advice by a number of readers, but she stuck by it, saying that to let him deny her completing the diss (apparently changing advisers at that stage was out of the question) would be to let him win. A depressing situation, to say the least. (see http://chronicle.com/jobs/2000/05/2000052601c.htm )
PT
Subscriber EE:
Everyone,
I remember reading that awful anecdote in Ms. Mentor's column; if I remember her advice properly (I didn't go back to check just now), one of the most useful things Ms. Mentor stressed was the professional nature of the relationship between advisor and advisee. That is, even if the advisor was behaving unprofessionally, it was the advisee's responsibility to take care of herself and her career in a professional manner (even if it meant an unpleasant compromise in the short-term); no one else would look out for the advisee. Now, I think it is very easy to make that advisor/advisee relationship more personal than professional, particularly since most ABD people I know take their Ph.D. degree VERY personally (I include myself here). But blurring that personal/professional boundary can be pretty dangerous.
Both ES and PT seem to be suggesting that one has to pick one's battles, and I fully agree. I too, am concerned about the persistence of sexism (and other -isms) in the academy and in businesses (profit and nonprofit). In fact, I suspect that many universities have gotten away with creating the impression of equality rather than the reality, and will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into making changes if they are to survive. Some of us are on this listserv because we are trying to determine if that's one of the battles we are going to fight, or if there are other battles outside the academy that might be more productive, not to mention profitable, for who we want to be.
EE
Subscriber FP:
I empathize & would be exactly in your situation were it not for a previous career in music where, for example, women horn players were thought unable to hit high notes, etc.
Daveena is also right - there's no shortage of icky women out there; my first real empowering experience at Penn in fact came from one of their young male feminist faculty members. (He won the 'best faculty' award from students and was denied tenure--academe replicates itself...) And my worst experience was with a disinterested tenured woman.
Thanks again for interesting feedback,
FP
DOING RESEARCH FOR NONPROFITS
Subscriber AA: Hi - this is mostly a question for Lee, though of course others are welcome to chime in. I'm ABD in history, and I'm finding that I may not make it as a teacher. But I love research and, to some extent, writing. As a history person, I've done in-depth archival research, and I've also done a little bit of statistics-based social science research in my outside jobs. But I don't have a clear idea of what other kinds of research are out there as job possibilities.
So how does the research that you do in your non-profit compare to academic research? Would you say that it is less in-depth, or not? Do you mostly go to libraries, or use the internet, or spend time calling and talking to people who might answer your questions, or what? What kinds of questions are you trying to address? And how does the writing that you do compare to academic writing?
Thanks, AA
Subscriber ES:
AA,
I'm new to the list and was planning to just read, absorb, and digest but contribute nothing. Your question about non-academic research forced me to respond.
Although not a researcher myself, I do know that the researchers for our Advancement team primarily use the myriad of databases and resources available on the internet to research backgrounds of potential donors for advancement officers. They're a little bit like in-house private investigators who learn as much as they can about prospects (especially affluence and influence). We're always searching for alumni who might be potentially major gift donors. Our researchers scour Wall Street Journal and scores of other state, local, and national business publications for reference to our institution as alma mater of people being written about.
So, although our researchers work at a university, their research is not traditional academic research.
"So how does the research that you do in your non-profit compare to academic research? Would you say that it is less in-depth, or not?" Probably less.
"Do you mostly go to libraries, or use the internet, or spend time calling and talking to people who might answer your questions, or what?" More the internet than libraries or calling people.
"What kinds of questions are you trying to address?" How likely is this person to give a major gift to the university? (Just how rich is s/she?} Investments. Career info. Family. Real Estate.
"And how does the writing that you do compare to academic writing?" Very, very, very different! You write notes and email messages to development officers, you create a computer generated constitutent profile; That's about the extent of your writing.
ES
Paula Foster:
But is all research at nonprofits geared towards finding big donors? Is there any other kind of research that is typically done at nonprofits?
I can think of two kinds:
1) Research to support a grant proposal. For example, for a project aimed at, say, inner-city teens, the organization would have to include in the grant proposal a good deal of researched information, such as the number of teens that could conceivably be served by the project (demographics, population statistics), the socio-economic and/or historical forces that create the problem the project will solve (local history, micro-economics), the likelihood that the targeted teens will take part in the program (written or oral surveys), and the larger significance of the project (current socio-economic trends, on a larger scale).
2) Research to determine how well the organization is meeting the needs of its clients and how it could be of more and better service (written and oral surveys, observing and recording the impact of programs on the neighborhood, etc.).
Speakers, can you describe any other kinds of research that are typically or even occasionally done at nonprofits?
Paula
Subscriber RG:
I am also new to the list and was planning to just sit back and listen, but as it turns out, I have actually worked quite a bit with an educational non-profit, and I can comment on some of the research involved in what seems to be a slightly different non-profit from the ones our guest speakers are involved with.
I did a good deal of grant/proposal writing and found that many of the proposal numbers that Paula is talking about (i.e., success of the project, potential numbers served, etc.) are collected by field workers in the course of their work, especially in programs like the one she seems to be talking about (working with, say, inner city youth; we worked with underserved rural schools). I found that a lot of the "research" in my case, at least, was working with people in the program to get the statistics I needed. I found writing grants and reports for the non-profit was similar to writing project proposals/annual reports for a corporation, only you feel a little better about yourself. :-) I did have to crunch the numbers--basically take findings and turn them into statistics--but that was remarkably similar to averaging grades, which most of us have done.
I did need to do some personal research familiarizing myself constantly with current trends in education--I read a lot of trade journals, etc. since this was a public school endeavor and I've only taught on the university level. Grant-writing involves really knowing the vocabulary. I returned to academia and now work with the non-profit on an occasional consulting basis, and it was really nice to bring so much educational knowledge back to my own college classroom, where teaching so often takes a back seat to publishing.
I did do a lot of internet and trade journal research looking for grants to apply for, and I spent a lot of time on the telephone working with schools served by the project and with our own fieldworkers and consultants getting the information I needed. We did have a couple of consultants who were primarily researchers, but in our case the research methods used were social science research methods rather than humanities methods. Our successful grant proposals were full of statistical research and light on other kinds of research because so much of the "current trend" research was considered common knowledge in the field. It was frequently alluded to but rarely discussed in the proposal. I also found that current trends fueled a lot of debate around the office, but the research was less in-depth than in academia (largely, I think, because the goal is less knowledge for knowledge's sake and much more practical). Naturally, you're encouraged to accept research that supports your cause and downplay research that doesn't.
I can definitely vouch for the statement that you need to get your foot in the door as a volunteer or other low/no pay position. I slipped in, believe it or not, as a temporary secretary during a time of desperation.
I'm curious as to how this stacks up to the experiences of our guest speakers who are clearly in different kinds of non-profit organizations. I'm very interested in possibly continuing this line of work at some point, and I'm curious as to how well my experiences mesh into any non-profit atmosphere.
RG
Douglas Stewart:
Regarding AA's question about research, I agree with ES that prospect research is fundamentally different from academic research. It requires a lot of web searches, inquiries about who knows who, what so-and-so has given to which organizations, etc.--it is honestly not nearly as fun and intellectually stimulating as academic research. The kind of research that Paula describes, on program impact, is a lot more interesting. I love to find out what our various programs are doing, the challenges they're facing, and how we are assessing their impact. The last is a *huge* challenge that most nonprofits struggle with constantly--how to evaluate the effect of their programs. Again, this kind of research is quite different from academic research--at least the research I was accustomed to in graduate school. It involves constant personal contact and it is very detail-oriented. Our programs are dynamic in every sense of the word--they change scope and shape quite often. For example, just this week we learned that four of the public schools we were planning to partner with this school year had either closed or decided not to continue our program--on the very first day of the school year here. It can be very hard to project what you are going to do over the next year when you can't even fully plan for the coming week. This is probably the biggest challenge I have in writing grants, and I'd say patience, flexibility, interpersonal skills, and the ability to write clearly are the most important traits for dealing with it. The kind of research I did in graduate school has very little to do with my work here.
Here's another stray thought regarding academic/nonprofit research. One of the biggest concerns of foundations is nonprofit agencies duplicating each other's services. A person with a background in argumentative writing can be particularly helpful in making this kind of case to foundations. We (former) academics understand better than most the value of doing something different and know how to position ourselves vis-a-vis other arguments or, in another context, how to position our own programs vis-a-vis those of other agencies.
Douglas Stewart
Lee Polansky:
Hi all:
The easy answer: Nonprofit research varies immensely depending on the *type* of nonprofit. I would say that there are 2 basic types of nonprofits.
1. Think tanks (e.g., Urban Institute, institutes attached to universities). Crunch numbers, design surveys for ostensibly nonpartisan purposes. These places hire tons of social science Ph.Ds. Although a place may be interested in humanities Ph.D.s with quantitative skills, the usual place for humanities types are in public affairs, writing, and editorial capacities.
2. Advocacy Organizations--which is what I do. Think Children's Defense Fund, Sierra Club, etc. I do all sorts of research but it's very different from academic research. I use research done by other groups to advocate--give me the numbers/facts that back up my arguments. I do research for our staff, my boss (a former congressman, who always has lots of questions about everything), the press, misc. people who call in asking misc. questions about environment, women's reproductive rights,etc.
I don't do long term projects or applied research. I never go to a library. I *do* do internet research, I call lots of people and ask *them* questions. I read reports and synthesize them.
Lee
Subscriber VT:
Chiming in from Canada, in response to Paula's request that we share some of our experiences (I'm enjoying the discussion and finding it helpful; thanks!) -- I completed my PhD in social & educational studies in 1999, and have always been more interested in working in the community than in the academy. In addition to working on several research projects & conducting my own critical social research, however, I also obtained considerable teaching experience while completing my dissertation. Last year I began to market myself as a consultant to non-profit and government offices associated with my areas of interest & expertise (child & youth advocacy). I was met with the enormous gap between research & practice, and between being an "academic" and being a practitioner. The sense I got was territorial: You're an academic; you don't belong here; this is our turf; and so on. I did manage to get two small research contracts but had to continue as a sessional instructor to pay the rent. I had a problem with the type of research I ended up being involved with. One of the courses I teach is social research methods & ethics, but here I was being confronted with highly questionable research methods & research ethics! I was not involved in the original research designs and was essentially hired to collect data that conformed to the predetermined outcome/agenda of others. I won't go into the myriad problems this situation presented except to say that I was [1] doing bad research -- using instruments that allowed only certain types of responses -- and [2] collecting some data [I became somewhat subversive] that actually challenged the pre-set agendas and was, therefore, ignored. I vowed to avoid doing other peoples' research in future. This summer I am re-marketing myself to non-profit organizations -- with a tighter focus on programs for children & youth -- as a program consultant (development, reviewuation, rejuvenation), workshop instructor (ethics, social justice, educational values, etc.), and a social researcher (including lit reviews, grant proposals, etc.) but I will only conduct research if I have control or involvement in all phases. I am getting some serious interest and hope during the Fall to have some small jobs lined up. I have applied for a few nonprofit staff positions over the past two years but, again, my sense is that the PhD can be intimidating and that I am perceived as an "academic," when what they want (perhaps understandably) are social workers who have had 15 years of hands-on experience out in the field. I should mention that I am 55, female, with a strong business background in administrative (10 yrs) & artistic endeavours (10 yrs) before returning to university as a mature student. Even with my business background -- which included coordinating large projects and running my own business -- and 20 years as a volunteer child & youth advocate, 7 years of conducting research involving children & youth, and 4 years teaching future school teachers about social justice issues affecting the lives of children & youth (sexism, racism, classism, homophobia, stereotypes, violence, etc.), I'm a sociologist and not a social worker and I don't get the job. I don't want an academic career and I believe my best bet is to work as an outside consultant/researcher in ways that make my PhD an asset & not a liability. VT
PUBLIC HISTORY NONPROFITS
Subscriber TC:
I noticed that Lee mentioned that she has done some public history work along the way, and I would really like to hear more about that. Having just completed my Ph.D. in American history, I have become very interested in public history for a variety of reasons, including family obligations that preclude further moves in search of a tenure-track job as well as my reaction to a full-time but temporary academic position. Looking back on my grad program now, I can't believe that public history was never even mentioned as an alternative.
From some very preliminary investigations, my sense is that grant writing is a very important and attractive skill for musuems, historic homes, etc. I have not yet done it, but would simply approaching local museums or historical societies offering to volunteer/intern be a good way to start?
Thanks -- I am really enjoying these disucussions.
TC
Lee Polansky:
I am also surprised that history programs don't talk about this, but I think that's just the usual bias against jobs outside of the academic circle.
I think that TC's idea to look at historical societies is an excellent one. I was on a papers editing project at Emory, which is usually word-of-mouth, but ask around and see if there's anything similar in your area.
Because I've investigated public history, I do know that many positions, including the ones with the federal govt. (which hires a good number of public historians), require training in archival methods, library methods, and/or curating. So, check out courses in your area.
And, this is a good place to repeat the usefulness--and entertainment value (really!)--of informational interviewing. Public history encompasses many job descriptions (e.g., editing, museum work, oral history projects). I would recommend talking to practitioners about their jobs.
This website looks pretty helpful: www.publichistory.org
Lee
Subscriber RB:
A couple of thoughts on entering the world of historical societies and historical museums. Having just completed a Masters in Historic Preservation (terminal for the field) I can tell you that the job hunt can be difficult in this area. Look carefully before you jump. The field pays very low and people often voice concerns about being able to pay off their loans. Many entry jobs often request 3-5 years experience, again prepare to volunteer. As PhD candidates you may have an edge, I'm not sure. Lager organizations may have a culture and requirement similar to the academic world. On the up side you get to balance research and other activities. (Amount of each depends on the organization, some you'll have no time for research others..) Results can be rather immediate, a new exhibition, direct contact with objects and history, planning restorations etc. You also have contact with a wide range of people from the public. Communications, teamwork, planning and initiative are important assets. Try these organizations and sites to find out more:
www.globalmuseum.org American Association of State and Local History American Association of Museums Museum-L (go to L-soft, I can' find the subscription information, there is an archive too with a great deal of information on the pros and cons of museum work)
Good Luck
RB
Subscriber CL:
Hi. I'd like to put my two-cents' worth in on a variety of topics that have come up. I am ABD in history and have been working for about six months at a non-profit. I'll admit my situation is a bit of an anomaly because I seem to be one of few who have ended up working outside of academia on a subject that is very close to my dissertation research. I do research for an organization called the Jewish Women's Archive, which does various kinds of educational programming on American Jewish women's history, as well as developing different kinds of resources for anyone (from middle-school students to academic scholars) interested in doing research on Jewish women's history. It's public history, but probably with a more academic bent than many public history organizations. I am one of several people working there with an academic background. I really love my job. It allows me to continue working with a subject that still interests me but to reach a much broader audience than one does in academia. While it has taken some getting used to after the autonomy (and isolation!) of academic research, I am enjoying working with a team of people on a project. My colleagues are great, and I find what others have commented on to be true in my case as well -- I feel my skills and contributions are far more valued in this setting than they ever would be in academia. People in my office are bright, interesting, and driven, but they are also on the whole very down-to-earth.
Unlike what some other people have said, in my case, the academic training was of direct help in getting the job (which, like many other people on this list, I found quite serendipitously). While other people who have done my job in the past have not had such training, being ABD in a field related to what the organization is doing really made my application stand out. In fact, they had been on the verge of hiring someone else when my letter came in. My background made them realize that I could do more for the organization than what was explicitly in the job description, that I was truly committed to the subject matter, and that I had the skills to do the work well, quickly, and without a lot of training. So I would say that at least for some non-profits, the Ph.D. (or ABD status) can be of more than just indirect benefit. About the nature of the research: again, this may be unusual, but in my case it is quite in-depth. Most of it has been archival and library research, looking at similar types of sources I would have in my academic research. I still read scholarly books and articles in my research. What I create from this research, however, is quite different from academic work. I create the content for posters used for educational programming, in addition to writing companion Web exhibits for these programs. The analytic depth of these projects is not as great as for strictly academic work, but I have found figuring out how to shape the content for different audiences to be an interesting challenge. I also have to look much more broadly at different ways to transmit our message, using images, video, audio, etc., in ways I wouldn't be able to in a scholarly article. It's been a lot of fun, and provides me with a great deal of intellectual stimulation.
About the hours: my experiences have been like Lee's. I work at least 40 hours a week and usually more, but there is a good amount of flexibility that might not be present in other kinds of jobs. I am lucky to work only two days in the office and the rest of the time from home, so that means I have even more flexibility. I don't know how common that is. As for the other people in my office, a few really do work strictly 9-5, others put in a lot more time. There are also a few who work part-time (27-30 hours/week). I think if they really want the skills you have to offer, many organizations will work around scheduling issues you have. My office happens to be all women, which might make it more conducive to accommodating people's family and personal scheduling needs.
About contract work: we do hire people to do work on a contract basis, in a variety of capacities, on-site and off-site. We have people who work on our newsletter (both writing and design), people who coordinate projects with us in other cities, people who are going to be doing oral histories for us, etc. We also hire graduate student Fellows for summer projects. I think there is definitely a market there for people who want to work with non-profits as a sort of independent contractor.
I would also second what others have said about flexibility being one of the hallmarks of working for a non-profit. You have to be willing to take on duties and projects that might not fit within your job description, and to put in extra time when something comes up. In my mind, though, that is a plus, because it keeps things interesting.
So if you're bored by/sick of/disillusioned with academia but not by your subject matter, finding a job that allows you to keep working with that subject is not impossible. Public history organizations are a good place to start for historians, but there must be similar organizations for other disciplines -- educational consulting, museums, arts and literature organizations, cultural associations.
One last word -- about salary: my office had been envisioning hiring a recent college grad for my job and had budgeted accordingly for a salary, but when they found that they could hire someone with more experience and training, they upped the salary to make it more attractive to me. (I didn't tell them I would have taken the job for the lower amount!) I started the job making slightly more than many of my friends when they started tenure-track jobs. For obvious reasons, salaries at non-profits are never really competitive with industry or business, but they aren't always pitiful, either.
I'd just like to add that, contrary to the experience of many people on this list, I had no experience at all in non-profit or service work when I applied for my job! In public history, at least, academic experience is generally sufficient. I will say that if I continue in other kinds of non-profit work after this job, I think having this experience on my resume will be very helpful.
I hope this information is helpful to people. I've really learned a lot from this list myself!
CL
NONPROFIT JOB HUNTING RESOURCES
Subscriber KV:
Hi there:
Thanks a lot to our guests for sharing their experiences with us. I have a question for them and for any other list members. How can we learn about non-profits? Is there some data base with their addresses?
Thanks again,
KV
Douglas Stewart:
KV--Go to www.guidestar.org and you will find a comprehensive database of nonprofits--their addresses, specialties, financial information, etc.
Douglas Stewart
Subscriber DS: Douglas mentioned "Opportunity NOCs" as a good source of information in his introduction. Is this a book, a web page, or something else?
DS
Douglas Stewart:
Opportunity NOCs is a weekly listing of job opportunities in the nonprofit sector published in most American cities by (I think) the Nonprofit Resource Center. I assume you're in Washington D.C? If so, you can find it at your local Foundation Center library. The Foundation Center website has a lot of useful information about jobs, too (http://fdncenter.org/).
Douglas Stewart
Lee Polansky:
Misc. websites, etc. useful to people thinking about nonprofit jobs. Many organizations post jobs on their website, so you can meander around to organizations that are in your "area" of interest.
As mentioned, www.Idealist.org sends out a daily job listing.
For Washington DC job hunting: "The Washington Post" website lists jobs by types; Congressional Quarterly's "Who's Who in Washington Nonprofit Groups" (book) lists nonprofits by field--very useful to see what a group does.
See also the Gale Group's, "National Directory of Nonprofit Organizations" in your library.
Newspapers: "Opportunities in Public Affairs" (www.brubach.com/opamain.html), "Environmental Career Opportunities" (www.ecojobs.com); and "The Jobs Book."
"Opportunities in Public Affairs" is esp. widely-used, and also lists jobs on Capitol Hill and in the media.
I'll send more if I think of them.
Lee
Daveena Tauber:
KV, I saw a huge directory of nonprofits at my local library once. I don't know if there's one on line, but you might try searching by issue or locations. Many have a national office (often in D.C.) and regional offices, all of which have their own staffers. Others are locally based.
Daveena
Lee Polansky:
Someone might have suggested this resource already, but just in case: an excellent source for nonprofit jobs, esp. of the money-making variety (e.g., fundraising) is the Chronicle of Philanthropy. They advertise everything from entry-level grants writers to Executive directors.
Lee
Subscriber OI:
Greetings -
In following up on the website URL leads provided by our very helpful guest speakers, I came across a few more that might be of interest to the list subscribers:
www.ejobs.org
www.envirocitizen.org (earthnet jobs)
www.nonprofitjobs.org (the career center)
www.cof.org (council on foundations)
www.sustainablebusiness.com (greendream jobs)
Good luck and save a job for me,
OI