CAREERS IN LIBRARIES
with Lisa Conathan, Deborah Jakubs, Charlie Potter, David S. Ferriero,
Hosted by Paula Foster
Edited by: Clare Callaghan
February/March 2007
The following Guest Speaker Discussion originally took place on WRK4US in February/March of the year 2007. Because WRK4US has a confidentiality policy, all names and email addresses have been altered or removed, except for the moderator's and the Guest Speakers'.
The discussion can be read in two ways- by simply scrolling down and reading the whole thing, or by clicking on the topical links below, which take you to specific places within the discussion. The discussion can also be printed out in its entirety for your reading convenience.
Special thanks to Clare Callaghan who volunteered her time to edit this discussion and prepare it for posting on the web. If you are interested in editing a future discussion, your help will be much appreciated; email Paula Foster, WRK4US List Manager, at pfchambers@sbcglobal.net
I. INTRODUCTION TO GUEST SPEAKERS
II. FROM ACADEMIC CAREER TO LIBRARY CAREER
III. DEGREE PROGRAMS
V. APPLYING FOR JOBS
VI. CAREER OPPORTUNITIES
I. Introduction of Guest Speakers
Lisa Conathan
Archivist for Slavic Language Collections
Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library
Yale University
I am an archivist at the Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, Yale University. I've been on the job less than a month, so I will provide the perspective of someone new to the field. Before this position, I had a postdoc split half time between the University of California, Berkeley (where I got my Ph.D. in linguistics in 2004) and the Smithsonian Institution. I became interested in archives while researching my dissertation. In my field (Linguistics) there are mountains of archival collections which are underused. A current global emphasis on endangered languages means that archival research is becoming increasingly important. I came to see that a career in archives would address issues of great import in linguistics, while also providing more tangible results than my theoretical research.
My current job title is "Processing Archivist for Slavic Language Collections," which means that I arrange, describe, and preserve collections of literary manuscripts in Russian and Polish. This involves an intellectual component (e.g. researching the work of the literary figure) and a physical component (e.g., providing archivally sound housing and storage for the papers). The two biggest projects I'll be working on in the next year are the papers of Joseph Brodsky and Czeslaw Milosz. I find myself relying on skills and knowledge I acquired during my grad student days, but my new job also takes some getting used to. A few things stand out: control over my work, the office culture, and expectations for a wide knowledge base. Before this, I was working on a research project which I designed, funded, and controlled both in a micro level (what will I do today?) and a macro level (where am I leading my research?). My research became increasingly specialized and esoteric ("more and more about less and less"). And, I worked from home, alone.
Now, my work depends on the projects and priorities of the library as a whole. I work in areas in which I am no expert (as of now I know very little about 20th century Central and East European poetry), which is both refreshing and daunting. And, I put on real clothes to go to work. I think working at the Beinecke provides the best of many realms. My salary and benefits are comparable (in some respects better) than those of an assistant professor. I have a conference travel budget and plenty of support for training and education, generous holiday and vacation time, and a relieving 8:30-5 schedule. Plus, learning Polish is part of my job (for me that's a perk). Later on in the week I'll tell a little more about my experience in library school and on the job market. I look forward to responding to your questions about making the transition to a library or archives career.
Deborah Jakubs
Rita DiGiallonardo Holloway University Librarian
Vice Provost for Library Affairs
Duke University
My transition from a career as an historian to that of an academic librarian began with a military coup in Argentina in 1976. I was a graduate student at Stanford, ready to go conduct a year of field work on my dissertation, and literally overnight my chosen topic became too dangerous to pursue due to the political upheaval and unpredictability. Applying for grant funding for research abroad followed a schedule with strict deadlines, which I would miss by having to devise and describe a new dissertation topic. So I spent an additional year on campus, creating the framework for my new project, and began working in the library, assisting the Latin American curator. But it wasn’t as simple as “wow, this is interesting work, I want to be a librarian.”
I found it stimulating, but a year later I was in Buenos Aires, working in archives. When I returned to Stanford some fifteen months later, and began to write up my findings, I resumed working in the library as a way to supplement my fellowship. Over the next year+, as I slaved away on my dissertation, I grew disillusioned with the prospect of what I perceived as a largely solitary career – though my fascination with Latin America, which had developed very early in my life, persisted. I found myself attracted by the much wider window into Latin America that the library offered (in stark juxtaposition to the rather specific topic of my research, and of any dissertation, in fact) – although I could not really admit this to my professors, who would have considered becoming “just a librarian” to be selling out somehow, settling for less, even if I finished my dissertation. Of course, faculty often see their graduate students as extensions of themselves and take pride in their intellectual achievements – and a dramatic change in plans would not have sat well. My uneasiness with my chosen profession continued, until the last straw, when I met and married another historian and had to face the prospect of not finding jobs in the same place.
At about this time, I was counseled by the head of Stanford’s Collection Development operations – a medieval historian with no MLS – to go to library school, “because the field needs people like you.”I did so (I was, technically speaking, simultaneously enrolled as a grad student at Stanford – still writing my dissertation — AND at Berkeley, in the UCB library school) and have never, ever regretted it. To give you a sense of my career path, in a nutshell:I worked first at The Research Libraries Group (RLG), which was then on the Stanford campus, and in 1983 moved to Duke University as a “General Bibliographer” (largely social sciences collection development). Mind you, at this time I had not yet completed my dissertation – I joke that I did everything I could NOT to finish: changed careers, got married, had a baby, moved across country….But I knew it was something I wanted and needed to do, to make that “contribution to the literature,” and it has definitely made a difference in my career opportunities.
I have been at Duke ever since then, moving into being first the Librarian for Latin America and Iberia, then the Head of the Collection Development Department, next the founding head of the International and Area Studies Department, then the Associate University Librarian for Collections Services, and, since January of 2005, the University Librarian and Vice Provost for Library Affairs. Along the way I was a half-time visiting program officer at the Association of Research Libraries (ARL), where I developed the Global Resources Program, a joint endeavor of ARL and the Association of American Universities (AAU). In the late 1990s I received a multi-year grant from the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation for a post-doc program to train recent PhDs in any field of Latin American studies to be academic librarians – a program that did not require the MLS, but instead consisted of an “apprenticeship” here at Duke. I am pleased to say that the program’s five fellows are all working in Latin Americanist librarian positions.
An introductory thought: it is a tremendously exciting time in libraries, and jobs and skills are changing fast. The deep subject knowledge, familiarity with the research process, and ability to teach that humanities PhDs can bring to the profession make this an ideal career shift. Add to that being comfortable with technology, and you’ve got the whole package!
Charlie Potter
Assistant Professor Reference Librarian/First-Year Experience Coordinator
Maureen and Mike Mansfield Library
University of Montana
I am currently an Assistant Professor and Reference Librarian at the University of Montana-Missoula. Prior to working here, I served as a public librarian at a large library system in Oklahoma. Before becoming a librarian, I was on track to complete a PhD in English. I left the English discipline with only an MA, as I quickly became discouraged by the negative experiences of my peers on the academic market. I am also (and was at the time) in a long-term relationship with someone with an English PhD, and I knew our chances of finding employment together were low. Like many English students, I had always loved both books and libraries … and, honestly, that’s probably how I found my way onto the library path. The possibility of using my research background was another enticing aspect of the field. At the time I entered library school, the library job market was (and, in large part, still is) a seller’s market—and the prospect of obtaining gainful employment was a huge part of my decision.
In my current position, I am responsible for all library instruction given to incoming freshmen and transfer students. I do a lot of work with the teaching assistants in the English and Communications Departments, as well as with the administrators of the first-year writing, communications, and orientation programs. In addition, I serve as the library liaison to several disciplines/departments. Translation: I do lots and lots and lots of outreach. I contact professors, attend the department faculty meetings, visit professors in their offices. In addition, I purchase books and electronic resources for my departments. I am in a tenure-track position, and that means I also do a lot of writing, researching, and service on top of my day-to-day responsibilities. In addition, when I choose (and have the time), I can teach credit-bearing courses related to research and information fluency (e.g. Media Literacy, Research Methods, etc.). I also serve several hours each week at the Reference Desk of my library. In other words, unlike some of the other speakers on the list, I have a more general and typical reference librarian position.
As I mentioned previously, I also have public library experience. Public and academic libraries are different in many ways, but I find both to be fulfilling. It is worth noting that public librarianship differs greatly depending on geography and library size, in my experience. As has been mentioned many times on the WRK4US list, graduate school in Library and Information Studies can be a difficult transition for many folks coming out of rigorous academic disciplines. Unfortunately, I share this experience. In fact, I dropped out of library school twice before finishing. I say this not to discourage anyone; instead, I bring it up because I know (from talking to other folks in the field) that this experience is very common for people with graduate work in the humanities.
In my experience, many library school classes are practical and task-based; I found it difficult to change gears from my critical training in English. However, the actual work of being a librarian is great, and librarianship is a great career for folks with graduate work in the humanities. Getting over the initial “hump” of library school was hard, but I am very glad I did it. I am happy to answer any questions about either academic or public librarianship.
Looking forward to the discussion,
Charlie
David S. Ferriero
Andrew W. Mellon Director and Chief Executive
The Research Libraries
New York Public Library
My name is David Ferriero and I am the Andrew W. Mellon Director and Chief Executive of the Research Libraries of the New York Public Library—a lofty title for someone who started his library life shelving books in the Humanities Library at MIT! As an undergraduate at Northeastern University I was offered a co-op job at MIT and alternated work and study semesters and, in the process, fell in love with libraries. I ended up spending 31 years at MIT doing just about every job imaginable, leaving there in 1996 as the Acting Co-Director of Libraries.
My years at MIT trained me well for Duke University where I was the University Librarian and Vice Provost for Library Affairs until 2004 when the New York Public Library wooed me to the Big City. For a librarian that is like being called back to the mother ship! My current duties include oversight of the NYPL's four research centers: the flagship Humanities and Social Sciences Library on Fifth Avenue; the Library for the Performing Arts at Lincoln Center; the Science, Industry, and Business Library on Madison Avenue; and the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture in Harlem. The portfolio is large and involves management and leadership, fund-raising, planning, helping to shape the research collections, supporting educational outreach activities, and creating a work environment in which the staff can thrive.
Although I stopped my formal education at the masters level, I have come to value the special contribution that PhDs bring to library work. Libraries are full of librarians who know a lot about libraries, but we all benefit from the subject expertise which PhDs bring to the environment. In addition, PhDs know firsthand the process of scholarship—an expertise that I have come to appreciated in my career in the planning of library services and collections. Libraries have something for everyone! We need people with advanced language skills, people who work well with faculty and students, people who love to teach, people who can articulate the role of the library in the scholarly community, people who can envision an information world that is intuitive to even the naive library user, and people who love the thrill of connecting people with information.
This is your time to chat with us and I hope you will take advantage of the opportunity.
Looking forward to the conversation!
FROM ACADEMIC CAREER TO LIBRARY:
1) Do I Need the MLS?
Good morning, all.
I was thrilled to read David's message, especially since his penultimate paragraph describes me to a T—I have a PhD in comparative literature, speak and write fluent French, teach in a French department, edit a scholarly journal, and am a published and prize-winning literary translator. I have long been thinking about a career in a library, but, alas, as a die-hard New Yorker and someone who did all her dissertation research at the main branch of the NYPL, that is the only library I would truly be interested in working for (well, one of its branches, perhaps...).
But leaving aside that particular dream, what are the chances of someone with my background (and perhaps too many years of experience) changing careers at this point? I love teaching, and have seen how new media have radically changed the way both I and my students do research...But would I need to start from scratch, i.e., do a complete MLS program in order to find a good library job? I apologize if this question seems naive, and appreciate all feedback from any of the panelists.
Thanks, G.S.
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David replies to G.S.:
You have opened the door on a very interesting issue: is the MLS a requirement for professional work in libraries? While most public libraries still require the MLS and many academic libraries also do, there is a growing trend to hire for the competency, rather than credential. This is especially true in the larger research library environment.
Some institutions require non-MLS hires to take a few basic library school courses and some provide that same level of orientation/training with in-house staff. This is a shifting landscape as libraries try to match their staffing needs with the real expertise needed.
David
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Lisa replies to G.S.:
I asked myself the same question ("do I need to complete an MLS in order to get a good library job?"). Although there are some alternative pathways to jobs in libraries, I came to the conclusion that an MLS would be the quickest and most efficient way to get a permanent job. I completed the MLS in less than 12 months, and a few months later had an offer.
I know that some people can make it work without the MLS, but having the degree opens up a very wide range of jobs. Without the MLS, you are likely to be limited to jobs which have an association with your specialization. As I mentioned in my introduction, one of the appealing things about the library field is being able to branch out beyond my narrow specialization.
Lisa
FROM ACADEMIC CAREER TO LIBRARY CAREER:
2) Experiences
I.C. notes:
Can another library student (soon to be launched on the job market) interject something here? Bear with me if you've read this before from me.
Not long ago, I was a bitter, depressed and very angry unemployed Ph.D.— maybe some of you remember that. A lot of people suggested library school to me— people who knew me, knew what I was like, temperamentally, and what I liked. But this suggestion just made me angrier, bitterer, and more depressed.
Why should I have to spend another moment in school— as a student? I was more than through with being a student. I had been a student for close to twenty years, and now had little more than a doorstop dissertation to show for it. Why shouldn't my Ph.D. in musicology have been enough for a library job, if that's what I wanted to do? I was smart. I read a lot of books. I knew databases. I was a real crackerjack user of libraries. I had WORKED in libraries. I imagine I made a lot of librarians' eyes roll.
It wasn't until I actually bit the bullet and went to library school that it hit me <slapping forehead>. Libraries are their own thing. Librarians have their own sets of skills and concerns. They have their own culture of sorts. It is a profession. And now, after only two short years that practically flew by me— I'm going to be one.
I.C., Ph.D.
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Lisa replies to I.C.:
Thanks for your thoughts on library school, I.C. I went though some of the same things when I was considering library school and then when I was going through the program. And now that I am starting my new job, I am very thankful for the training I got in library school. It has prepared me well to deal with the issues I'm facing every day. Without it, I would have been clueless.
Lisa
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Deborah comments:
I would like to share some information from my experience with the post-doctoral program I developed for recent PhDs in any field of Latin American Studies. This was funded in the late 1990s by the Mellon Foundation, where there was concern about the future of area studies librarianship. It was a year-long fellowship program based on the idea that area studies librarianship requires strong and deep subject and language knowledge plus a solid understanding of the functioning of a research library.
Mellon was interested in this as an alternative career path into library work, not as a program that should include or require an MLS. The goal was to bring people with that strong background (evidenced by their having completed PhDs) into a kind of apprenticeship, a hands-on experience within the Duke libraries. Fellows were encouraged to audit a couple courses at the UNC SILS but mostly to work closely with research librarians and to complete a project related to the area. We trained five fellows in the program, all of whom are working in very good jobs as Latin Americanist librarians. One of them did get an MLS along the way.
The reason I am writing about this to WRK4US is to share what I learned in the interview/screening process. The program provoked some almost hostile responses from MLS librarians who saw this as a way for PhDs to take some of the good jobs. In helping place the five fellows, I had to spend a good deal of time explaining why this was a legitimate training program, and that they really did understand the functioning of libraries (I suppose they would be what Jim Neal refers to as "feral librarians," a term I find very distasteful in a day and age when there are, in fact, many paths to library work).
But during the interview process, it was clear to me that not just any PhD will make a good librarian. I know that all of you on the list who are interested in this fine career have come to it not out of desperation or an image of what it will be like, but because you genuinely aware of its advantages and of how you can put your skills to work. You might be surprised to know how many folks out there really don't have a good idea of what it REALLY takes to be a good librarian, or of the very diverse responsibilities it involves.
My favorite candidate was one who on paper was spectacular — and I had even known him a bit as a grad student and been impressed by his interest in my work in collection development, and in books, and bibliography. Turns out that, during the dinner with the search committee, he told us, "I detest undergraduates." Considering that he had been teaching at a liberal arts school, it was probably good that he was looking for another career....
But librarianship is certainly NOT a place for someone with that attitude! Nor is it (especially these days) a place where the sheer appreciation of books and knowledge and scholarship will get you where the field is going. It is a much more dynamic world, with 8-5 jobs in which no two days are alike. It is about people and networking, bringing students and faculty and information together.
Sorry for the soapbox, but I thought it might be helpful to hear about my experience with the post-docs....
Deborah
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P.D. discusses a personal journey into the library world:
It's been pretty inauspicious, really. After over 25 years of making a living in dance, through choreographing, teaching, and performing in all sorts of situations, then age and Lyme disease told me I would probably not be able to continue for much longer. So what to do? I considered writing (I've done some), physical therapy (still too physical), social work (I don't think I have the patience!), teaching (done plenty in dance, not so sure I want my next 20 years to be in charge of a group of kids), and librarianship (bingo!). To help get my feet wet (and to get a good referral to library school), I took a part-time job as a shelver, er, library associate in a public library.
But my supervisor also gave me a formal introduction to library services, which helped enormously when I started school. After nearly a year (make note, people tend to stay put in libraries), I was offered a position as assistant to the director. So I am now a fairly mediocre administrative assistant, but I have had to learn a lot so I can fill in when other staff is absent. I also book our meeting rooms, so I guess I am still in show business! I am now privy to the other side of the library profession, learning about management, maintenance, politics, economics. And about vision, and people.
Regards, P.D.
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Lisa discusses her transition:
I think this is a good time to send out my reflections on library school: As I mentioned earlier, I did my MLS very quickly (in just less than 12 months). I chose the program I went to (Maryland) for three reasons: 1) it has a reputable archives specialization 2) it is the closest library school to Charlottesville, VA, where my husband is a grad student and 3) the program is only 36 credits and therefore can be completed in a year. I was also working half-time as a postdoc for the University of California. (This was a research job, and I didn't need to be on location in Berkeley.) I found that my 6 years of prior experience as a grad student made library school much more manageable than it would have been otherwise. If you have a Ph.D. under your belt, the amount of work you need to do to get the MLS will not be a shock to your system.
Overall I am very glad to have the MLS training. I do think, however, that I could have gotten the training I needed in an abbreviated program. The most important courses I took were the core curriculum (cataloging, reference, intro to archival theory, and archival description), and a seminar in which we discussed a variety of theoretical issues in the field of archival studies. Many of the other courses with which I filled out my credits felt extraneous. In my opinion it would be ideal to have a “fast track” library certification for people with grad degrees in other fields. A person with no prior grad school experience often needs more time to develop basic skills we probably take for granted (e.g. writing a report or grant proposal or communicating with a non-specialist audience). Unless or until such a fast track becomes available and widely accepted, however, the MLS is still the surest way to get a good job in a library.
My advice for anyone thinking of entering the library field is to focus on getting some practical experience. No amount of experience is too small to help you land a job. I did two internships while in library school and also volunteered at the local public library repairing books. While it was tough to put on that "intern" badge at the Smithsonian, I can honestly say that my experience there came up more than once at my Yale interview. If you do decide to go to library school, don't feel shy about applying for jobs part way through.
It's always possible that you can be hired as a paraprofessional until you complete your degree, or that if the department likes you enough they will change the job description to make it work for you. On a final note, as you are considering a library career, you might want to decide whether you are a 'public services' or a 'technical services' person. Very simply put, public services deals with people (reference, training, education, outreach) and technical services deals with stuff (preservation, cataloging, description).
Certainly there are jobs which don't fall into these categories but often entry level jobs will be one or the other. It can be helpful to focus your efforts.
Lisa
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P.D. responds:
Thanks, Lisa. I would love to hear more from everyone about the theoretical v. practicum debate in library education. What skill sets do you wish you had learned in your MLS training?
P.D.
DEGREE PROGRAMS:
1) SPECIFIC PROGRAMS, US NEWS RANKINGS
C.D. asks:
I have some questions about combining library training with doctoral work. I am beginning the dissertation stage of my program in American Studies, and am planning on pursuing a career in archives. Up to this point I have (unsurprisingly) devoted most of my time to studying and teaching; however, I do work part-time in special collections and spent a year processing collections at the Historical Society of Pennsylvania.
My plan is to spend another year getting my dissertation in order before tackling library school. I am wondering what else I should be doing to prepare for the transition to a library track. I eventually hope to hold a managerial library profession, but am not sure how I might gain experience in the more business-oriented side of the job (fundraising, etc.) rather than the research and collections side with which I am already familiar. Are there specific programs, or types of programs, that might be more geared towards students who are aiming for upper-level library positions? I'm still relatively early in my doctoral work so I have some flexibility in terms of how I integrate a library degree into my academic training. I would appreciate any advice David or others might be able to offer.
Thanks, C.D.
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F.B. replies to C.D.:
I'm currently in the program at Syracuse University, and in my experience the program here is VERY management-oriented (at times perhaps too much, for my own interests anyhow). This is underscored by two things: they've taken to calling the School of Information Studies here (and perhaps in other places) "the i-school" — read, b-school with a focus on information.
Secondly, the sibling programs to LIS here are in Information Management and Telecommunications and Network Management. I don't know of other programs with such a focus on the business end of things but I imagine they're out there.
F.B.
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K.D. replies to F.B. and C.D.:
I am a 2003 grad from the Syracuse program. I hardly recognize my alma mater in F.B.'s description. Of course things may have changed in the past 4 years. I found the program to be very technically oriented...especially in the Distance Ed format. In fact, to the person posting looking for a school that pushes the tech side of Library Science: Syracuse is definitely it! I come from a business background and was weak on the technical side...perhaps that is why I see SU as a tech school not at all a management-oriented school.
K.D.
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P.D. responds to F.B. and C.D.:
SU's library program is very weighted toward theory. Business, F.B.? I'm not so sure, though I would certainly like to see more offerings in things like literary skills and collection development. They are definitely enamored of technology, which is helpful to me, coming so late to the game. I am not bored, not by a long shot.
Regards, P.D.
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R.W. asks:
Schools to avoid/ "Better" schools?: —Is there a "hierarchy" of MLIS degree-granting institutions in the librarian world? [e.g., Folks who won't even consider hiring an applicant unless he/she is from X program(s)]; —Are certain schools considered "better" than others? Are there schools we should especially consider or avoid (particularly in the New England/upstate NY area)?
R.W.
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David responds to R.W.:
I'll take a stab. The U.S. News and World Report coverage of Best Graduate Schools does represent Library and Information Studies programs (and provides breakdowns for best programs in Archives and Preservation, Digital Librarianship, Health Librarianship, Information Systems, Law Librarianship, School Library Media, and Services for Children and Youth. For the past several years, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the University of Michigan have been tied for the number one spot. See:http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/lib/libindex_brief.php.
David
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K.D. responds to David:
Ouch! It's U of Illinois Urbana and UNC that are tied for first (2006) rankings, with Syracuse following. These three schools have been battling for the top spot for years. I think geography is an important point in choosing schools. For instance, where I used to live in NJ, all the librarians came from Rutgers.
I was an interesting candidate because I came from a different school. Likewise, if you live in NC, I would think that a good, non-UNC degree would be highly appreciated. Different schools bring different ways of looking at things.
K.D.
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Charlie responds to R.W.:
First, the only library schools to "avoid" might be ones that aren't accredited by ALA. Otherwise, my best advice is to find a program that fits the kind of librarianship you want to practice. Library programs differ greatly from institution to institution—certain programs are more tech heavy, others are more info behavior-oriented. Some have academic or archival tracks, some don't.
Yet, I think that if you are bound geographically to a certain school, you can still get a great LIS education. I attended the University of Oklahoma for my MLIS; while this isn't the most prestigious school on the planet, I still got a great education from some very accomplished people in the LIS field. In fact, I find that my education was comparable to that of my peers from Illinois, Michigan, and UNC. (And, obviously, I found a great job—the job of my dreams, in fact.) In other words, I'd choose based on 1. specialization and 2. geography before I'd make a choice based on brand.
Charlie
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G.S. asks:
Does anyone have any first-hand information about Pratt's MSLIS degree?
Thanks, G.S.
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W.C. responds to G.S.:
As a soon-to-be MLIS degree holder (another Palmer School from NYC), I just wanted to add my two cents to G.S. query's about Library School. It is a must. The specialized knowledge of your individual discipline, however glam or cool, is a very different world than that of library science. Its been tough, its working with a different side of your brain, but I truly feel it is one the very best things I have ever done for myself, and I only wished I could have happened upon it sooner! I think finding the right program is key.
There are several in the City, so you will be spoiled for choice. Our classes at Palmer are all in the evening and/or on weekends, as the majority of folks involved hold full-time positions/lives elsewhere. And you will be surprised at the range, breadth and depth of knowledge, backgrounds and skills that your classmates bring to the table. I have meet Fortune 500 execs making the switch, M.D.s, etc. As one of our professors likes to say, the people you encounter in your classes are very likely to be your fellows in the library world in the future , the formation of community and networking starts there. Its well worth the plunge! :)
Best luck, W.C.
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M.Z. writes:
I too am interested in this topic. I am looking at the program at Queens College because it is the cheapest. I wonder if it matters much where one gets the MLS degree. Also, I happen to love working with computers and technology and wonder if there is a 'tech' specialization within the MLS/MLIS degree? What sort of work in the library should I look for if I enjoy reading books, communicating with people but also enjoy working with new applications in technology. I will be grateful for any suggestions on this.
Thanks, M.Z.
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P.D. answers M.Z.:
I am pursuing my MSLIS through Syracuse University's Distance Learning program. There is a lot of opportunity to concentrate on technology, particularly digital library technology. (For that matter, all our courses are taken through technology!) Since libraries are all about disseminating information, they are working hard to think of new ways to be the information centers of their communities. SU has a lot of research projects going on in this area.
As for me, I know I am more valuable as a potential hire if I have technology skills. And I have a digital library project in the making, so even though I am coming late to the game, I am catching up. I am also a big proponent of low-tech information sharing, through performances, presentations, and conferences. The "tech speak" gets to me sometimes. But I am already light years ahead of where I was, so I guess they are doing right by me!
P.D.
2) Funding
O.A. asks:
First, a big thanks to the panelists for their time and insights. I'm a 51-year old who is considering library science as a second career: one that nevertheless brings together proven skills (management, development) and longtime interests (history). There's an exciting and unrealized local opportunity that I'm eyeing; still, I'm not foolish enough to believe that it will necessarily come to fruition, for me or anyone else at this time. (Then again?)
First, on to graduate school, for the second time— and a few questions:
Laura Bush's affiliation with library science has yielded some new grant money. Does this mean more fellowships for graduate students? Are special program or project funds available? How can one align him/herself with an institution or university to secure such support?
Regards, O.A.
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David responds to O.A.:
There are scholarship opportunities out there. The American Library Association website has a pretty comprehensive section on financial aid available. See: http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Section=scholarships.
In addition, many universities have tuition assistance programs which help library employees complete library school coursework. Lots of us did our library school work part-time, while working in libraries. I worked in the MIT Libraries while completing my coursework at Simmons.
David
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Lisa replies to O.A.:
Laura Bush's affiliation with library science has yielded some new grant money. Does this mean more fellowships for graduate students? Are special program or project funds available? How can one align him/herself with an institution or university to secure such support? I think that fellowships are rarer for grad students in professional degree programs than in academic ones. It seems to be common, however, to have a graduate assistantship where you work 10-20 hours a week in exchange for a small wage and tuition remission. This can be a great opportunity to get some practical experience.
Lisa
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R.W. writes:
Thank you for this information, Lisa. It's helpful to know that grad assistantships are sometimes available to MLIS students, especially because I figured that non-loan student aid wouldn't be an option since the MLIS is a professional degree. My questions here are these:
1. How difficult is it to get such an assistantship? Do most MLIS programs offer them?
2. Do you know how taxing the work load tends to be for such assistantships? (I'm thinking back to the days when I took 3 grad classes and TAed 1 language class. I was mostly responsible for doing lesson plans & corrections 5 days a week. Although we were supposed to work no more than 20 hrs/wk, lots of times we went beyond that, and I'm hesitant to take on that sort of load again, and shortchange my learning.)
Regards, R.W.
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Lisa responds to R.W.:
I'm afraid I don't know much about how widely available such assistantships are. At Maryland, most people who wanted one could get one. If you have previous grad school experience, it's likely that you have skills which will make it easy to find an assistantship. Generally there are more such positions at larger schools, where the faculty are more likely to have large grant-funded projects. This is a good thing to discuss with the dean when applying to library schools.
As for how much work they tend to be, it depends greatly on the particular position and who your supervisor is. I know people who had positions which were quite manageable, and others who had positions which were overwhelming. I think that is something you need to get a feel for before accepting the position.
Lisa
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C.J. adds for R.W.:
At our institution, the majority of on campus students have assistantships. There are three types of assistantships, and the workload really varies depending on the type of assistantship you have, and where you're working. Most common are graduate assistantships (GAships) - frequently these are in various library departments and positions, and they serve to give the students professional experience while acclimating them to the profession and giving them a stipend and (at least partial) tuition waivers. GAships range from a few hours up to 20+ hours per week, with job duties varying by employer.
Research assistantships and teaching assistantships are more prevalent for doctoral students, and again, the workload varies depending on where and for whom you work. Some fellowships are available, but at our institution, they're frequently reserved for doctoral students in the dissertation phase - or for students working on special projects, or in special curricula.
C.J.
3) Program Length
R.W. asks:
"Shorter" vs. "Longer" programs: —Are the shorter programs (I've heard that there are 1-yr degree programs) considered enough to show our commitment to the profession if we already have another advanced degree MA and/or PhD? I understand and appreciate the resentment among librarians w/MLIS who resent PhDs coming in and "taking over" w/out having "put in the time" of getting the degree (especially as there is a fair amount of specialized learning involved).
Thank you in advance for your advice & suggestions! R.W.
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Charlie answers R.W.:
I think a one-year program isn't necessarily a bad idea. However, most folks spend a good 6 months to 1 year on the job market. It's probably very difficult to begin the application process after having only a few months experience in the field. (If you have library experience already, this may not be a concern.)
Good luck, Charlie
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G.S. asks:
Lisa,
Did you finish your MLS in 12 months while working full-time? I am not in a position to go back to school full-time, but I certainly see the benefits you mention of the MLS degree.
—G.S.
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Lisa responds to G.S.:
I did the MLS in 12 months while working half time and commuting between Charlottesville, VA and College Park, MD. This was a bit hectic but it was worth it for me. I plan on posting some more thoughts on library school this evening, and I'll explain how my program went and why I crammed it into a year.
Lisa
4) Distance Learning
L.Q. asks:
I think I've heard good things about the University of Illinois's online library degree program. http://www.lis.uiuc.edu/programs/leep/ Do any of our commentators have an opinion on it?
L.Q.
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F.B. comments to L.Q.:
I'm currently taking a course through LEEP as part of the WISE consortium, an online course-exchange program through several LIS schools. I've been very impressed with the course setup, content, infrastructure, and assistance from department staff, which I've needed at times.
One caveat is that all LEEP courses (to my knowledge) have a required residency on campus, which means you'll have to travel to Champaign each semester. They do them all on one extended weekend, which happens to be this weekend for this semester. Other online programs, like Syracuse's, only have required residencies for some courses, usually over the summer.
F.B.
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R.W. asks:
Online degree programs: — In your experience, how are applicants from *online* degree MLIS programs considered? (Do they receive serious consideration during the hiring process? Is there a bias against them? Would you consider hiring one?)
R.W.
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A.K. comments to R.W.:
For some perspective on this, check out: "Employers Often Distrust Online Degrees" by Dan Carnevale from the January 5, 2007 Chronicle of Higher Education http://chronicle.com/weekly/v53/i18/18a02801.htm
A.K.
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Charlie replies to R.W.:
In my experience, applicants from accredited online programs do just as well on the job market as those from f2f schools. In fact, most library students these days will take at least one or two classes online. There is no bias, in my experience.
Charlie
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E.S. responds to Charlie:
I am in a program that probably can be done fully online. It's an MLIS through San Jose State University in California. I don't think it's the most prestigious online program but as online courses go from what I have seen, it's competitively priced. I would add my own perspective, though, that I've so far found all the online courses I've taken and most of the hybrid (some live class time, some online time) courses disappointing in the sense that the professors do not teach. By that I mean that they give assignments but they don't offer any kind of lecture or other insight into the topics we are covering.
I'm in a course right now that doesn't even have a textbook and while I'm reading a few articles here and there, and doing a case study in a group, I'm not learning really anything about the topic because the professor is completely disengaged from teaching us anything. Since my classmates and I are not experts, we have nothing to share with each other to learn more about the subject either. I know the theory of library school is that librarians have specialized knowledge but at least with profs I have had so far, I'm not getting that specialized knowledge. There have been a couple of exceptions but the majority of my courses are this way.
I think a fully live course would be far better but they don't do that for students at a distance like me. So I don't know about other schools but at least at SJSU, the program will get you a degree and if you don't care whether you learn anything, it's perfect. I find that a continuing source of frustration but programs I've heard of that are probably better, in the northeast U.S., are all way too expensive for out-of-state students.
E.S.
1) Archives, Records Management, Special Collections, Etc.
G.U. asks:
Archives is an area that interested me in library school, but I got the impression jobs in archives might be even more scarce than in libraries. (For those of you looking to enter the field of librarianship, be very skeptical of the ALA's claims that there are/will soon be lots of library jobs. Librarians apparently don't retire on schedule.) Lisa—and anyone else who knows—could you give us a sense of the job market for archival positions?
Thanks! G.U.
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Lisa answers G.U.:
The job market for archivists in academic environments is scarcer than for librarians, but it depends a lot on where you want to work. If you expand your search to include private corporations and government archives you will have more opportunities. Records management is a related, growing field as well. The measure of a tight job market, however, is relative. I found many more archives jobs to apply for than Linguistics faculty jobs. If your attraction to archives is because of a love for old or rare materials, consider a variety of jobs in an academic special collections library, not only archivist positions. To get an idea of some of the archivist jobs out there, visit the Society of American Archivists list: http://www.archivists.org/employment/index.asp.
Lisa
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K.D. responds to G.U.:
Every library I've ever worked in has had an archival collection of some size stuffed in a basement closet. I too love archives. My problem is not finding archives to work with, but the money necessary to care for archives in a library whose main mission is to buy current materials to serve its patron base.
K.D.
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D.H. asks:
Could you say a little more about other types of jobs in special collections? And what is records management?
Thanks so much, D.H.
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V.R. asks:
I have another question for Lisa and the rest of the participants in this discussion. I am planning to go to library school next fall and am interested in studying archives management/special collections. In looking for jobs in those fields, how much do library school pedigree and connections matter?
V.R.
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L.X. adds:
Connected to questions about archives, I want to know about public history/oral history dimensions of archives. I have a PhD in history of science and ideally I would love a job that would not only allow me to scour the nation for document collections to acquire, but to conduct oral histories as well. How do the two positions — archivist — public historian — mesh? Can one do both jobs?
L.X.
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O.A. asks:
Can a library science career be part-time, especially for the new graduate?(It also would be wonderful for me to devote some concentrated time to my writing).
Also, is it possible to focus on special collections management?
Again, I really appreciate your time!
Regards, O.A.
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David answers O.A.:
Most programs have a core of basic courses which are required and then opportunities to take electives. This allows the student to tailor the program to their own interests. All of the schools have their course offerings up on the web. Do some surfing and discover what is available. In addition, you might be interested in checking out Rare Book School at the University of Virginia:http://www.virginia.edu/oldbooks.
David
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Lisa responds to O.A.:
Can a library science career be part-time, especially for the new graduate? (It also would be wonderful for me to devote some concentrated time to my writing).I've seen part-time jobs advertised for public libraries, but only very rarely in academic libraries. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that if you are used to balancing teaching, taking classes and writing, then the pace of a 9-5 job might free up some time for you to devote to writing.
Is it possible to focus on special collections management? I would be wary of attempting to go straight from library school into a management position unless you have substantial prior experience. There is a lot you don't know about how to manage a library until you've worked in one for some time. I think it would be reasonable to expect to get 2-3 years experience in an entry-level professional position before moving into a management position. That said, most professionals manage the work of paraprofessionals or students to some degree. If you would like to focus on special collections, there are a few ways to do this.
First, take courses geared toward this in library school (there might be courses devoted to rare book cataloging, the history of the book, manuscript collections, etc.). Second, focus your practical experience in this area by volunteering or getting internships in the kinds of libraries you'd like to work. Third, take advantage of workshops to learn about specific areas. The Rare Book School in Charlottesville, VA ( http://www.virginia.edu/oldbooks/) is an excellent way to do this, and they offer scholarships to students.
Lisa
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Z.M. comments:
Hello. I'm usually a lurker on this list, having joined it when I was unemployed over 3 years ago. I am now happily employed as an indexer-analyst at the American Theological Library Association in Chicago. Much of my job involves doing for articles and essays what catalogers do for books (discern subject headings and other characteristics and enter into a database). I have a comment, a brief story, and two questions.
Comment: There may be careers in indexing or other kinds of subject-knowledge-heavy information processing for people with advanced degrees with no library school, although I understand that the usage of trained scholars varies wildly by discipline. (Our department supervisor said that Chem Abstracts trains people with high school diplomas to recognize formulae and certain phrases — it's more efficient for their purposes than using degreed chemists.) There are eight indexers here at the American Theological Library Association, some with master's, some with Ph.D's. Some of us have worked in libraries before; none of the current indexers has a finished ML(I)S, although some of our current and past indexing staff are/have been in library programs. I do not know much about the employment of indexers in other fields.
Brief story: for those of you who were wondering how I got this job that I like so much, here's the capsule summary: worked in various temporary office jobs, including data entry, while earning a M.A. and a Ph.D. in two different parts of the country; impressed the head of cataloging at my Ph.D. institution, who was also running a data entry project for an academic society, with my data entry skills; said head of cataloging offered me a student position in the cataloging dept. over the summer at admittedly low wages, but since I had no other paid work at the time, I took it, and found I really enjoyed the work. After graduating, it was several months before I got a foot in the door in post-student-status library work by taking a temporary, no-benefits position (1/2 copy cataloging, 1/2 shifting books) at the university down the street, which also happened to be where I got my undergrad degree; was checking the website of my current employer for openings as a cataloging trainee at a theological library when I found that the library association itself needed an indexer who could read German in Fraktur — bingo!I have been here for 2 3/4 years.
Questions: since I love my job, but the database business will presumably change during my working lifetime (I'm in my early 40's), should I go to library school? And if I tentatively answer "yes" to this question, is there a serious disadvantage to delaying it until I take care of some other priorities? Obviously, no one else can answer these questions for me, but I think it would be interesting to hear the panelists' views.
The advantages I see are the opportunity to move into management of authority work here (I am good at and enjoy authority work, but I also enjoy staying close to subject matter as an indexer) or easier re-employment elsewhere. The disadvantages are money and time (opportunity cost in both areas). I would like to spend time in the next few years getting my (now 4 years old) dissertation and some more recent work in my field published and working on a long-set-aside extracurricular creative project.
Any thoughts, anyone? Z.M.
2) Current and Future Trends in the Field
E.S. asks:
Deborah,
I have a Ph.D. and am part-way through an MLIS. I have a question about the technology part. I got my Ph.D. hoping to teach. I've spent many years actually working as a computer programmer, a profession I hate. My hope is to be a reference/instructional librarian and have little to do with the computer (that is, people contact would far far far outweigh looking things up besides finding call numbers for students). I've become very concerned that I'm about two decades too late for that, and that entering librarianship means being doomed to focus on technology just as I do today.
Do you think this is the case, that the need for librarians who actually talk and work face-to-face with patrons is disappearing? Also, last semester I had a class assignment on librarian positions and what I found was that there was a pretty tiny pool of reference librarian jobs in academic libraries out there, which is what I want to do. In fact, scanning the whole country I had trouble finding ten openings that didn't require something special, like art expertise for UC Irvine. Are openings really that minimal? That wouldn't be any better than my Ph.D. field, which is very crowded.
Thanks. E.S.
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Deborah replies to E.S.:
Thanks for your question. Technology is certainly an important part of what librarians do these days, but so is human contact. Most reference librarians do rely on looking things up/helping people find information in electronic databases, and instruction librarians do the same. I am not sure what you mean by wanting to have "little to do with the computer" — you certainly won't have to be staring at a screen all the time, but your technology skills will come in very handy in any area of librarianship. Even so, technology is still a tool, not an end unto itself — and working with students, particularly in more organized/formal instruction and outreach programs, is a booming area in research libraries.
Another possibility might be instructional technology, i.e., working with faculty to teach in more creative ways by incorporating technology into their pedagogy. At Duke the Center for Instructional Technology is part of the library, and there have been lots of opportunities for the CIT people and the subject specialist librarians (mostly in public services) to team up to work with faculty and with students on the content in their courses.
Let me know if you have additional questions, thanks, Deborah
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Paula asks:
Here's a question for all of the panelists. I would like to know more about the "information management" side of the librarian profession as opposed to the education, archives, or customer service aspects. Thanks to this discussion, I am starting to pick up several phenomena which I believe would make librarianship a very exciting career for the 21st century.
(1) The world is absolutely becoming information-centered.
(2) Libraries are attempting to remain relevant and ahead of the curve by developing ways to store, manage and retrieve information.
(3) Information technology is itself changing rapidly, both inside and outside of libraries.
(4) Librarians are increasingly involved in decision-making processes about information management, at the local, regional, and national levels.
Add to that the fact that (as most of us already know) the way you divvy up information and the paths of access that you create to get to it have a huge effect on how it is retrieved, perceived, and utilized by the end user—and I see a huge increase in complexity, consequence, power, and intellectual FUN for librarians, especially those in leadership positions, who may be more likely to participate in those decision-making processes. Put another way, if "history is written by the winners," and history is being made right now in terms of rapidly developing methods of information management, then are librarians already being the winners, or positioning themselves to be the winners, by actively controlling, or at least influencing, the way information is stored and retrieved as well as the education of library users?
Paula Foster Chambers
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A.K. recommends to Paula:
There is an excellent book related to this issue—Patrick Wilson's "Second-Hand Knowledge: An Inquiry into Cognitive Authority" (Greenwood Press, 1983)—that still holds up well, even post-WWW.
-A.K.
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Lisa responds to Paula:
What a great set of questions, Paula! Control of knowledge and information is something which archivists discuss a great deal. For a long time archivists considered themselves to be impartial, almost passive keepers of information. Now, however, you will see archivists taking a more active role in the "shaping" of the historical record. One of my professors in library school said, "In the 80's we had to go back and 'find all the women' in archival collections." Now, we're 'finding' all sorts of people who haven't been previously highlighted in historical materials. For example, anthropology and language-related collections are 'finding' all the indigenous consultants who worked with scholars to document their language and culture.
It is clear to me that archivists choose what to highlight and provide intellectual access to when they are organizing and describing a collection. The challenge is to make sure you aren't only on the side of the 'winners' (well, or the 'losers' either) and that future historians will be able to discover some of the complexity of the story behind the records.
Lisa
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Charlie replies to Paula:
I second A.K.'s recommendation of the Patrick Wilson book, if you are interested in learning more. I would also add that, as you might suspect, information corporations are largely in charge of this type of "knowledge shaping," with librarians acting as consultants (in the good cases ...). (It is worth noting that, outside of the archival realm, much metadata [or authority control] has been outsourced to the large info corporations, and items are assigned data before coming to a library. This was once a rhizomatic and decentralized process but is now largely controlled at the corporate level.)
As Lisa notes, folks in positions of authority in the library profession have some power where "writing history" is concerned. I think this discussion is a good place to plug the importance of library educators—the people who teach in library and info science programs. They are the folks that are truly shaping the discourse of librarianship (and, largely, information studies), and, in turn, they have tremendous power to shape the ways that a librarian views his/her own agency within the world of information (and history, for that matter).I don't want to insinuate that the mission of the library is antithetical to that of the corporation; this is certainly up for debate. Nonetheless, many (probably most) librarians operate only in the realm of teaching students to find, access, and evaluate information; very few of us (unfortunately, IMO) are teaching students to question the ways that knowledge is constructed through particular databases, disciplines, info and communication technologies, etc.
This take on information is taught in MLIS programs, although I fear that one might have to be at the PhD level in LIS to obtain a thorough understanding of the ways in which information systems and technology influence culture, history, etc. (Unless, of course, a librarian seeks out this information for him/herself.) I attempt to teach these things, but I am faced with serious time constraints and collaboration issues ... I would imagine that this situation is the same for many librarians. Nonetheless, these are the questions at the heart of librarianship and information—and a critical understanding of them does make for some "intellectual FUN" ...
Charlie
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K.R. asks:
What exactly is involved in the "I" side of an MLIS, and what sort of work does it prepare one for? I'm a little leery of a career path that focuses on print media in this day and age.
Best wishes, K.R.
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Charlie responds to K.R.:
As Deborah suggested in her note to E.S., the library profession is largely technology-based these days. Of course, we still buy, preserve, and promote books.
The "I" in MLIS refers to "information"—and that means that librarians are highly concerned with how people get the information they need and use that information to form knowledge (opinions, ideas, etc.). This means studying everything from the uses of Google to the information seeking behavior of hairdressers (seriously—I had a prof. in my MLIS program who studied this). I would definitely say that most librarians (at least those in general reference roles—and this is what most librarians do) are more concerned with hypertext than with print media. So, the "I" in the MLIS prepares librarians for dealing with the ways that people seek/find information—whether print or not.
Charlie
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Paula asks Charlie:
Charlie observed: "It is worth noting that, outside of the archival realm, much metadata [or authority control] has been outsourced to the large info corporations, and items are assigned data before coming to a library. This was once a rhizomatic and decentralized process but is now largely controlled at the corporate level."
At the risk of exposing my irrational bias against corporate America, let me first just childishly say, "Eeeew!" I had no idea this was happening. Can you comment a little further? For example, what are the names of some of these "information" corporations? Am I right to say "eeew" or are some of the companies actually doing good things with information management, bringing new and valuable resources to bear on this challenging and important problem?
I have been wrong on the corporate thing before; many wonderful human beings work in corporations, and many corporations are making truly positive contributions to society. Also, it sounds like some librarians, or perhaps the profession as a whole, are wanting to get more involved in this process; do you see any hope for that?
Paula Foster Chambers
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Charlie responds to Paula:
The world of metadata/cataloging is a strange place. In one way, centralizing the records makes a lot of sense—libraries will be more homogenous, and therefore patrons will (ideally) be able to find things more easily. Outsourcing is also usually cheaper, and most libraries are short on funds. However, outsourcing can detract from the uniqueness of individual libraries in some ways, and it also makes it more difficult for librarians to "know" their collections.
An additional problem outsourcing creates: half of a library's collection may have been catalogued internally (by librarians at the institution), while the other half (usually the more recently acquired items) might have metadata/cataloging info that was created elsewhere. This means that a collection can begin to look very wacky b/c one half has been completed according to the library's system, and the other has been done by another system ...
The "info corporations" I'm speaking about are the big library vendors: Baker & Taylor, Thomson Gale, etc. They have in-house metadata folks who can (for a fee) assign metadata/cataloging info to books before they arrive at a library. In fact, there's a shift to outsource even more types of library functions—in some instances, strangers (er, professionals) can come to your library, assess your collection, and determine what books you should buy. Many vendors even have "approval plans" wherein certain books will be sent to your library based on a determined formula for the needs of your library. Thus, in many cases, local librarians aren't even choosing the books for their libraries. (And all of this makes me want to yell, "WHAT KIND OF CANON ARE WE CONSTRUCTING HERE??!?!?!") But, there are advantages ... and I wouldn't say that these corporations are "evil"—they're not (at least to my knowledge) relying on sweatshop workers to construct metadata ...
You can read about how MARC record outsourcing (i.e., metadata/cataloging) works on Baker & Taylor's website here: <http://www.btol.com/ps_details.cfm?id=340>http://www.btol.com/ps_details.cfm?id=340. You can read about approval plans and the outsourcing of collection development here: <http://www.btol.com/ps_details.cfm?id=24>http://www.btol.com/ps_details.cfm?id=24. Here's a nice bibliography on libraries and outsourcing: <http://library2.usask.ca/~dworacze/OUTSOURCING.HTM>.
Charlie
1) Barriers
E.S. asks:E.S. asks:
In normal academia, I've hit (I think though I can't prove it) the age barrier and can't get an entry-level job. Is this an issue in librarianship as well? Is being middle-aged a serious barrier to a good librarian position?
Thanks. E.S.
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Deborah responds to E.S.:
On age: a significant number of librarians have come to this line of work "late in life," or let's say later than some other careers. There are lots of reasons for that. While it might be challenging to apply for an entry-level job, it's best to make it clear in a cover letter what you have been doing, why you are applying now, and how the experience you have had (teaching, writing, researching) has a bearing on the job under consideration. It will vary a lot by place and position, so there is no hard and fast rule.
I am impressed by the interesting candidates, thoughtful folks who know why they want a job, and who have had some relevant experience. Maturity is a good thing!
Deborah
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A.K. comments:
It has been a wonderful discussion of career options in librarianship so far, and it is worth pointing out a few mailing lists that could be helpful for those with specific questions about MLIS programs, particularly any questions that might be addressed by recent graduates:
NEXG.U.NLIB
http://groups.google.com/group/NEXG.U.NLIB?lnk=srg
NEWLIB-L
Google this text for subscription info: newlib-l site:usc.edu.
These lists have been particularly welcoming to those interested in learning about the profession, often having arrived there from other careers/backgrounds/degrees. I hope these are useful (even after WRK4US shifts topic)!
–A.K.
2) Shaping the CV and Resume
W.C. asks:
First — thank you so much to the panelists and to WRK4US for creating this remarkable and timely forum! I'm a Ph.D. (Shakespeare Studies), completing my MLIS. My question is both theoretical and practical. When applying for Library positions, how do MLIS c.v.'s differ from academic ones?
In other words, how best should I (re)shape my c.v. so that the recipients "get" me? And are convinced that after years of teaching, writing and scholarly research, etc., I sincerely do want to be a librarian, that I'm not mad or delusional.
I have spent years upon years tooling and re-tooling my academic c.v., and I am very proud of all its 11 pages, and all of my hard-won international credentials, but have been warned this is far too long to submit for ANY library vacancy. If 11 pages is too long — what should be deleted? Do my publications (two books, articles, etc.) and professional consultancies really matter in this context? What about fellowships, awards, etc.? Would it be possible for the panel to share a sample MLIS c.v. with the group for us to peruse?
Thank you, again, W.C.
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Deborah responds to W.C.:
My advice would not be to skimp on or trim the CV — books and consultancies are all important and things you should be proud of (and they reflect skills that are very relevant to library jobs) — but to be careful in the cover letter. That, to me, is the more important of the two for conveying your genuine interest in library jobs.
I have seen well-meaning PhDs focus too much on their research and contributions in the letter, and not enough on the kinds of things they would bring to the position at hand that are more relevant to it on a daily basis: commitment to working with students, an engagement with new questions raised by pervasive access to information, how to teach critical/analytical skills to library users who are overwhelmed by so much information, a willingness to work collaboratively (this is a big one to convey that you have made the transition from the more solitary and independent world of research to the more team-based world of librarianship).
Above all, be modest and approachable in the letter. In some quarters there is still a vestige of resentment against the stereotypical scholar-librarian of the past who sat in his/her office selecting books from catalogs, sipping coffee, perhaps, and thinking Big Thoughts but not engaging with other librarians (David F. will know the exact image I have in mind...). The CV will speak for itself as a record of intellectual achievement; the letter should introduce you as a potential colleague (and perhaps even take by the horns the question of "why I want to be a librarian now").
Hope this is helpful! Deborah
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David responds to W.C.:
I'd like to support Deborah's response to your query. Having been in the recruitment business for many years, I always place a higher value on the cover letter than the c.v. itself. It is your one chance to sell yourself, so make the most of it. Do your homework. Learn everything you can about the institution and the library. Read the job posting carefully and call attention to your experience which matching that job description.
And I am always looking for people who can make connections between their past experience and the new job opportunities; e.g., public service takes place in many venues, besides libraries. If you have sales experience, make that connection. Working with people is working with people!
David
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E.K. asks:
Is there any reason why you can't apply with a CV/resume that meets the requirements and possibly the preferences that the job posting required and bring your full CV with you to the interview? In my field (career advising and librarianship) this is a problem for applicants: if I don't tell them everything I won't get an interview. I think you should apply believing that you will get to elaborate at the interview (should time permit).
E.K., MEd, MLIS, BA
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Charlie responds to W.C.:
Ditto the responses of the other panelists on this one (the cover letter = very important) ... with one add'l bit of advice: I would suggest that you think seriously about trimming the CV if you are applying to introductory positions at academic libraries that might not have the funding that private or more prestigious schools have. In other words, some search committees will see an 11-page CV and think, "We can't afford this person!" I have seen this happen.
I think the PhD is highly valued, but you do have to convince the search committee that you didn't just become a librarian b/c the PhD thing didn't work out (whether or not this is the actual reason you're becoming a librarian). Some librarians resent the library career being viewed as a "second choice" career for people with PhDs. I don't think you (or most other folks with PhDs) feel this way; however, many librarians deal with professors on a daily basis who don't understand librarianship and sometimes treat librarians as second-rate scholars.
So, this is a prejudice against which you might be working. Keep in mind that, at most institutions, your future colleagues will not have PhDs (or even 2nd master's). At any rate, my advice would be to omit anything that doesn't have a direct correlation to your potential success as a librarian. You can always include a hyperlink to your full CV in your cover letter or the email accompanying your cover letter—the committee will likely see this and check it out. The best advice is, as with any job application, to cater the CV to every institution, considering their needs, the position, and the environment in which you will be working.
Charlie
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W.C. responds to Deborah:
Thank you so very much for this thoughtful reply. This makes a great deal of sense, and has helped me immensely! I am learning that this is a very tricky path to traverse. In many ways, for me at least, the approach you have outlined is a stark contrast to what I have seen/experienced in the "faculty job" world, where there seems to be a huge amount of pressure on how much "glitter" you can sprinkle on yourself and your c.v. to make yourself attractive to potential employers.
As one well-known university president put it recently, "Faculty falls into two categories: there are the silver players, and the grey players. And we all want silver players on our team." So, the message is to shine and sparkle — as an individual — and I think this sort of self-promoting glare can understandably be very off-putting to libraries and other bibliographic institutions who are looking for staff who are/can be truly collegial and possess a sincere desire to serve the needs of others. From here on out I will address these issues directly in my cover letters! Thank you again, Deborah.
Yours, W.C.
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Charlie answers W.C.:
Yes—I think this is a great idea. When a search committee is looking through 100+ applications for 1 position, they initially just want enough information to be sure that the person is qualified. Bringing the full CV to an interview is one way to deal with this (or including a hyperlink ... this also shows that an applicant is savvy enough to make a web page)—and one can always include phrases like "Selected Publications" or "Relevant Experience" to illustrate that she or he has more experience than what directly applies.
Charlie
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E.S. asks:
What is the likelihood of getting a position with a Ph.D. and a partially-done MLIS, as long as I make it clear I'm committed to finishing my degree? Will that simply be uncompetitive and a waste of time and postage to apply for positions in that case?
I'm in course five of fourteen in my MLIS. At one course per semester or summer, it's going to take a long time to finish. All the openings I've looked at require an MLIS/MLS. My degree is mostly online so I can tell a prospective employer honestly that I can finish anyplace geographically.
Thanks. E.S.
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Lisa responds to E.S.:
If you see a job you want but haven't finished your degree, go for it! Some institutions may be entirely inflexible about needing the degree completed, but others will not be. And even if you don't get the job, the experience will teach you something or introduce you to new people. I've never regretted sending in a job application.
Lisa
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Deborah answers E.S.:
Some places have more flexibility — but generally if a posting says that an MLS is required, they are legally bound to hire only a candidate with the degree in hand. I'd suggest looking case-by-case and see how the requirements are worded, and for a job or jobs that really, really interest you, it. Might be worth contacting the human resources person to explain your situation and plans before you apply (i.e., gauge how they would regard your application).
Deborah
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W.C. responds to David:
This makes a great deal of sense as well. You are absolutely right, one cannot assume that such connections are immediately apparent, even though the connections may seem blatantly obvious. One can think along the lines of: "Well, I'm a professor, so its obvious that I like people, and like helping them learn/uncover new things." I now understand that these "obvious" points need to be fleshed out and underscored. Thank you for your comments, David.
Cheers, W.C.
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W.C. replies to Charlie:
Thank you for this! As you will see shortly, I just posted a spin-off question directly related to some of your points here. I think what you are saying is absolutely right, and one must strike a delicate balance here, and find a way to "prove" to one's potential future colleagues that "Yes, I actually DO want to be here," that one isn't somehow just a failed or burned out academic looking for an escape hatch.
Perhaps this is also related to a larger issue of the need to promote an awareness and greater appreciation of librarians and librarianship amongst faculty. (That is a huge topic in and of itself, perhaps the subject of another e-conference...)
Thank you again, W.C.
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E.S. comments:
Well, I need advice here because this is my story. If I could find a position as a teacher, even at Dinky-Unknown College in Nowheresville, IA, I'd take it in a heart beat. Since I've not been able to find even that, I've looked around to see what alternatives there are that fit my background, interests, and personality. My interest is in teaching and equipping others to get their own tasks done. That's a librarian role. So I am choosing librarianship as a second choice since the first choice didn't work out.
How do I present myself to a search committee so that they are not offended that this is my second choice? I would think it would be fairly obvious that a Ph.D. in 2003 and an MLIS in 2009 or 2010 is going to say "failed academic, librarian wannabe." How can I overcome that?
Thanks. E.S.
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Charlie responds to E.S.:
If you got a PhD because you really want to teach, you should definitely emphasize this in your applications. It will HELP you, not hurt you. Librarians teach all the time—at the reference desk, in library instruction sessions for students and faculty, and sometimes in credit courses. Professing a love for teaching is something that can really get you a job—you just have to learn to put a bit of a rhetorical spin on it, you know?
I think it's perfectly fine to say, "My passion for teaching grew out of my experiences in the Humanities (or whatever) classroom; however, I am equally excited by the opportunity to teach as a librarian in a broader capacity." In fact, in my cover letters, I always discussed my teaching experience in English. I also talked about my pedagogical philosophy and how it translated into something applicable to library instruction. Librarians teach quite a bit, and many librarians aren't too fond of instruction. In other words, your enthusiasm about teaching could get you a job!
It's really a matter, I think, of just changing the way you look at librarianship. Really, one of the best things about the job is that you can, largely, make it what you want. And, in many cases, you might still be able to teach a class in your PhD discipline at the university where you become a librarian. So, not all is lost! Librarians have a lot of opportunities to try new things, and this means that any articulation of the ways your previous experiences will help you/the profession will be welcomed by most libraries. Hope that helps and good luck!
Charlie
3) Starting Salaires
W.C. asks:
Thank you all for your immensely helpful comments and suggestions about the application process, cover letter, etc. I'm going to bite the bullet here, and be the collective "id" of the group and ask the question that I am sure others are also thinking... So, they get me, but...can they afford me? Can the fact that I am/have been a faculty member deter a library from pursuing my candidacy out of fear that I will be 'too expensive' or well outside their price range? I had been warned that this, but didn't think it could be true. However, a while back, I applied for a library post outside the City, and almost immediately after submitting my materials, I received an email asking what my salary expectations were, and for details of my current salary. I panicked and did not reply. But I was contacted again, at which point I realized I had to respond.
I was given some wonderful advice from folks in this group, and responded as diplomatically as possible, stating that I was very keen on the position, the collection, location, etc., and would (of course) be very open to negotiating/discussing compensation. In response, I received another email flatly asking me for details of my current salary. I had no choice but to reveal it. (While my salary is certainly no fortune by NYC standards, it could appear, on paper at least, astronomical to people outside the City.)
A few days after this, I saw a revised version of the job re-listed on their website — this time they clearly indicated precisely what the salary would be, and of course it was considerably less than what I had indicated my current salary to be. I would have been willing to at least consider accepting a reduced income for the right position... Is there a way of communicating this gracefully?
Thank you, W.C.
P.S. I promise my next question WON'T be: 'But, how does one manage not having one's summers off?' :)
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Charlie replies to W.C.:
Two ways to communicate your willingness to accept a lower salary:
1. State outright that you are planning to change careers and realize that you will have to "work your way up" the library career ladder. (Keep in mind that you can always negotiate salary if/when you are hired—but, of course, you have to convince a committee to hire you first.)
2. Convey in your letter your enthusiasm and passion for librarianship—explain why you are changing careers and how your PhD experiences will make you a better librarian ... but acknowledge that you might still have some things to learn. A lot of librarianship is learned on the job, rather than in library school. I think that acknowledging this will make the committee feel respected and will increase your chances of convincing a committee that you are a serious applicant.
Charlie
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P.D. also answers W.C.:
You asked how to gracefully communicate that you are willing to work for less as you move into the field of librarianship. I have also often been hesitant to discuss salary freely, until I realized that my employers were often just as reluctant also! I would suggest hinting in your cover letter about your willingness to have that discussion.
As a former dancer (and Gallatin grad, btw), the librarians who hired me later asked if I felt that librarianship was somehow less glamorous, and would I miss my old career. The answer was no, I enjoyed what I did then, but am excited to move on to the next adventure. I also said in my interview that I have been in a communication and teaching career my whole life, and that literature and learning have always been a part of that (and gave examples).
I also spent a lot of time asking questions and listening to the librarians explain what they love about their jobs, and affirmed that I was looking for the same things. So I guess my answer is, know what you want in a library career, and know why you want it. What type of library do you want to work in? That will narrow your choices, and your approach. Do you want to be in a supervisory position? That will narrow things more. But be sure in yourself as to why you are making the shift, because you can bet your potential bosses will be curious.
— Regards, P.D.
1) Academic and Public Librarians
N.G. asks:
I have recently been persuaded to apply for my MLIS, and I presently have an M.A. in British Literature. What suggestions could you make (in terms of a career path and the like) for a prospective applicant to a Library Science program?
Also, where would you recommend one such person begin looking for work in this field? Is there a resource specifically for librarians seeking employment, or something along these lines? Thank you for your time.
Sincerely, N.G.
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David replies to N.G.:
If your goal is to use your British Literature expertise in your library career, I would suggest opportunities for employment in the college or university library where your MLIS program resides. Most of these libraries have internship programs or formal employment opportunities for library school students. These are great training grounds for future librarians and, on the library side, an easy way to hire bright, motivated staff!
Make an appointment with the director of library and explore employment (or even volunteer) opportunities and market your special expertise. I always recommend the personal approach so that the director has an impression of who you are and what you might bring to the organization. Bring along a resume. Follow up at a decent interval. Don't make a pest of yourself, but let the director know that you are serious about getting library experience.
Use library school and library jobs to decide what aspect of librarianship best suits your own needs. Library school will offer classes aimed at the various functions of a library and library jobs give you a chance to explore and see firsthand the nature of the work in various departments. As for librarian job offerings, there are several standard advertising vehicles:
(1) Chronicle of Higher Education (http://chronicle.com)
(2) ALA Jobline (www.ala.org)
(3) Special Libraries Association (www.sla.org)
David
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Y.F. asks:
Dear Panelists,
I was wondering if someone can expand further on the differences between an academic librarian (in an university setting) and a public librarian. Also, can the panelists speak to the futures in both, and possibly in their point of view, the pros and cons of these fields.
Many thanks in advance, Y.F.
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Charlie responds to Y.F.:
Having worked in both academic and public libraries, I can say that the experiences are quite different. In the academic setting, a librarian generally assists students and scholars with specific academic research questions or projects. I think that this is pretty true across most university libraries—there will be slight differences based on size, student population, etc. The pros? Still being involved in academic research, working at a university campus, working with colleagues who share similar backgrounds and values (generally) ... The cons? Justifying and promoting your services (as I.C. just wrote, not all scholars recognize what librarians do, and sometimes librarians catch some disrespect from other people in academe), the workload is pretty technology-heavy, sometimes the work can be repetitive (i.e. instruction sessions on how to use library resources). All in all, just like any other profession, one can find ways around the cons ... but it does take work.
Public libraries, conversely, differ greatly from one library to the next. While academic librarians can depend on a relatively homogenous patron-base (students and faculty who are at least *somewhat* comfortable with technology and have similar needs), public librarians serve an enormous range of people with varying levels of comfort with technology and library resources (and varying age groups).
The one consistency public librarians can usually depend on is community—all of their patrons tend to be from the same area and therefore have some of the same interests and needs. Pros? Feeling good about doing something for people in the community who need and are generally thankful for your services, working for a higher purpose, motivating community members about reading and education, never having a boring day (public libraries are very interesting places ...).
Cons? Sometimes missing academic discourse and research, going to a job everyday that can require an immense amount of patience, dealing with censorship, ... and, as I previously suggested, public libraries differ greatly from place to place based on funding, community size and needs, etc. If you like working with scholars, students, and professors, the academic library is enticing. If you enjoy more "face-to-face" work that is based on helping people read to satisfy more personal (rather than academic) needs, public libraries might be a better option.
Charlie
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David responds to E.F.:
Guess this one is mine! Having spent most of my career in academic/research libraries the past two years have been my first introduction to public libraries. I am responsible for four research public libraries, but have close association with my colleague who runs the 86 branches of the New York Public Library.
On the research side, the clientele is very similar to an academic setting—researchers, scholars, faculty, students. An interesting addition is the independent scholar/researcher who is unaffiliated. And the great general public who have a passion for research.
Also, my colleague who heads the branches and I have been working on ways of introducing traditional branch users to the wonderful world of research libraries to educate them about what is available to them, working with the K-12 community to demystify the research library collections, and encouraging those teachers to bring their students to the research libraries. The motto here is "Free and Open To All."
David
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E.S. adds on to David's comments:
>David: Having worked in both academic and public libraries, I can say that the experiences are quite different.
If I can add just a small note as an MLIS student, I had already decided that I wanted to be an academic librarian before I took a course in reference work. In my adjunct library work, I help students find resources, often those in my Ph.D. area.
I had a course in reference last summer (that's an area to show that a Ph.D. is not enough). I had to solve reference queries every week, things my Ph.D. in New Testament never prepared me for, like finding a map of the Lewis and Clark Expedition, or (with a nod to the New York Public Library desk reference) what's the most landed-on spot in Monopoly?(I guessed wrong before I found the answer.)
There's a lot of stuff that you might be asked about in a public library that probably wouldn't come up in an academic library. Another factor is what Charlie mentioned about clientele. There's not an issue in an academic library, so far as I can tell, of having to keep children away from certain areas or beware what an adult is doing on a computer near children (and given the views I have on that, it would make me too angry to let the adults use the library that way anyway, so it's better if I stay in an academic library).
E.S.
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G.U. writes:
I've enjoyed reading this discussion and found it very informative. It's wonderful of the panel members to freely share their time and knowledge with us! I graduated with an MLIS in 2005 and have been working in a public high school since then. I'm curious about the possibility of moving into academic libraries. The school I'm in currently is not a very desirable situation (long commute, large school, unsupportive community, high poverty, low test scores, comparatively low pay, etc.) but it may be years before another position opens up at a different high school (with one librarian per high school, I pretty much know everyone's situation). Because I live in New England, there are a number of colleges & universities in my immediate area, so I am interested in exploring this option.
There are things I like about my job that I believe could translate well to working in an academic environment; for example, I enjoy working with young adults, teaching information literacy, employing new technologies creatively, helping with research and reference questions for teachers, reaching out to faculty to inform them of our services and resources. I think I'd also like being in an academic environment. However, in graduate school a professor told us that 1) it's difficult to move between the worlds of school, academic, and public libraries and 2) you "often" need to have a 2nd master's degree to get a job in an academic library.
Regarding the first statement, I was led to understand that academic librarians might look down upon school librarians in some fashion...without going into the various stereotypes librarians suffer from, I think I know what he meant. Would you say this an accurate perception or does it depend on the college/university and on the individuals involved? Any insights would be appreciated.
G.U.
2) Tenure
H.F. asks:
Dear Panelists (with special greetings to Deborah and David, whom I was pleased to know at Duke!):
I wonder if all of you could comment a bit on typical career progressions for librarians in university settings. Specifically, I'm interested in whether librarians in most universities have faculty status, access to a logical promotion sequence, and ultimately, the possibility of attaining tenure. How, additionally, is one's work evaluated for promotion and / or tenure?
What positions in libraries tend to be tenured/tenure track and which ones do not, and how would one ascertain this? I ask this because I didn't know until just a few years ago that librarians often have faculty status, something that I think many WRK4US participants would find an attractive feature of librarianship. Thank you all for your time!
Best, H.F.
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Charlie answers H.F.:
Some librarian positions are tenure-track, and some are not. This can depend on many factors, including union status, institution/library size, budget, etc. One will usually know whether a position is tenure-track or not from the outset—the job ad will explicitly state this, in most cases. Typically, in libraries that give their librarians faculty status, reference librarians, archivists, and (sometimes) cataloguers tend to be tenured positions. Many managerial positions (circulation supervisors, public relations folks) are not tenured. Not all libraries work on the faculty model, however.
Tenure is, at least in my experience, a bittersweet thing for many librarians. It's nice to have the title of "Professor" and to be given the privileges of faculty status. However, librarians typically work 8-5 jobs—with evenings and weekends, oftentimes—and are therefore often strapped to find time to complete tenure requirements. (NOTE: if you're looking for a library position, this is something important to ask about in an interview—time to meet tenure requirements is an essential part of finding a good tenure-track position, IMHO.) So, the tenure designation does not always equal a "better" job. Many large and prestigious libraries don't work on the tenure model for the very reason I listed above. I've found that tenure for librarians can vary greatly from one institution to the next.
For example, some librarians are held to university-mandated tenure standards, while others are held to library- or department-based unit standards. My current position is tenure-track, and my library bases its tenure on unit standards. As you might imagine, the tenure process is similar to that of any faculty member: librarians are usually required to show effectiveness in research, service, continuing education, and teaching. ("Teaching," however, might loosely mean one-shot instruction sessions and things of this nature rather than credit courses.)
If a library follows unit standards for tenure, a librarian might be expected to publish, say, an article every 1.5 years or so along with professional presentations. (It is worth noting that articles in trade publications generally count for more in the library profession, although peer-reviewed publication still seems to be the standard.) Our service is also much like that of any other faculty member—university committees, professional committees, library committees, etc. At my library, librarians create a tenure portfolio every year to illustrate their progress. This portfolio goes under department and administrative review. In addition to tenure, this portfolio also determines eligibility for promotion.
In my experience, I would say that tenure in libraries is generally a "friendlier" process than that in other parts of the academy ... I have heard tenure horror stories from librarians, but they seem to be a rarity. In large part, librarianship is a very collegial and cooperative occupation, and that generally shows in the tenure process.
Charlie
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Deborah also answers H.F.:
It differs a great deal from place to place. I know that faculty status has been an attractive feature for many librarians, but — though this may sound harsh — it is not like faculty status of academic faculty, in most places. There are libraries that have a very rigorous review process (one of these places also allows/encourages librarians to take one day a week to conduct their research and do their writing) and there are others where the review is more perfunctory. Given the shift in background of professionals working in libraries (PhDs w/o MLIS, archivists, instructional technology folks who came through the education field, and other technology folks) I wonder if the concept of tenure for librarians will endure.
I have often thought that it is not productive for librarians to compare themselves to faculty because we (librarians) are really very different — yes, we work in an academic setting in teaching and in facilitating research, but we are providing a service and should celebrate the differences along with the skills we have that faculty do not have, the role we play that complements that of faculty. That said, it has been helpful to me to be an adjunct faculty member in the History Department, to maintain an involvement that goes beyond my day-to-day library work (e.g., I am serving this year as the senior thesis advisor to a student).
Deborah Jakubs
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Lisa replies to H.F.:
Others have addressed some of these questions but I will add my comments as well. As we've heard, some librarians have faculty (and tenure-track) status, while others do not. At Yale, we are not faculty but have similar salary and benefits. After a librarian progresses to a certain point (I think this takes 3-5 years) the position becomes "permanent" which is pretty similar to having tenure.
There is a lot of support to fulfill the requirements for promotion (conference presentations, local service, building a regional or national reputation, publishing). The requirements are similar to those of gaining tenure, but not as strenuous (i.e., there is much less of the "publish or perish" mentality).
Lisa
3) Jobs in Industry
R.P. asks,
Hello, I was wondering if anyone on this careers in library science thread can address working in corporate settings. What are the opportunities to use an MLIS degree to work in industry? Are there more jobs available in general and are they better paid? Do information jobs in industry use the same skills sets as a reference librarian position? Thank you,
R.P.
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Paula adds to R.P.:
I'd like to underscore R.P.'s question about corporate librarian positions and add that from my earlier dialogues with our four speakers, I learned that there are other types of librarians besides academic and public—corporate, law, and medical librarians, for example.
I tried to locate potential speakers in those types of positions but was unable to find anyone. Any light at all that our speakers can shed on "other" types of libraries and librarians would be much appreciated, to round out our depiction of the field.
Paula Foster Chambers
WRK4US list manager
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Deborah responds to R.P.:
I am on the Board of Visitors of the School of Library and Information Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and just attended a meeting of that group (last week). It was very interesting to hear those Board members who represent industry (e.g., IBM, Baker and Taylor) talk about the skills they look for. Definitely among them are the ability and desire to take risks, to be comfortable with change, and to analyze data and draw conclusions/make recommendations. In fact, one member was making a distinction between employees with MBAs, who are good at analyzing but not as good as MLISes at actually translating that analysis into action — I hadn't heard such a comparison before and was pleased to know that the skills that librarians bring to the corporate setting — actually thinking things through — are highly valued.
As for salaries, I am not sure about the comparison but I suppose that, given the pay scale and competition, the salaries are likely to be somewhat higher in business. Of course, the pace is also fast and very different from a university setting.
Deborah
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R.W. asks:
I'm sorry to be chiming in again so late in our discussion, but I figured I should take advantage of the wonderful panel we have here; it's really a privilege to have access to this information. 1.I was wondering what our panelists (and others in the know) thought about the "versatility" of the MLIS degree—i.e., how well it translates/carries into professions *other* than public and academic librarianship. (For example we hear of how people w/JDs & MBAs are often appreciated for their degrees, skill sets, etc., in fields other than "straight out" law or business, and how they are able to transition to other careers—journalism, politics, etc.)
In your experience, have you seen that with the MLIS degree? (I was surprised to find out that businesses sometimes hire them, though I'm supposing it might be because of the information technology aspect associated w/more recent degrees).
2. Also, how does a law librarian differ from a paralegal? My apologies if these questions seem silly, but I am curious.
Thank you in advance for your advice & input! R.W.
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L.G. responds to R.W.:
I can speak to the IS side of the degree and the corporate world: the company I work for (Zanzibar) likes hiring ILS grads because they have a useful set of perspectives on information and information management as well as whatever technical skills they may have acquired along the way.
That said, it is a technology company, so if you wanted to get hired onto, say, the engineering team, you would need to have the usual suite of programming skills. I got hired when I was almost finished with my master's and am only now, after nearly three years, actually going to work for a real library in 2 weeks :-). I think there are a number of companies out there that see the degree as valuable, but my sense is that it doesn't have the same level of recognition as the MBA.
L.G.
4) Job Locations
K.R. writes:
Thank you very much for having this discussion with us. I am currently finishing up a PhD and looking for academic jobs; and I have often thought that if that doesn't work out, a library career might be the best alternative.
Is it true that librarians can effectively work in any large city they want? That, once you have a library-science degree, you can first decide where you're going to live and THEN find a decent job there? And if that is true, is it something that's likely to continue, or is it just the function of a temporary glut of jobs at present?
This has been one of the big factors in my thinking about leaving academia - I strongly dislike having to go wherever the job market kicks me, and I wouldn't want to enter any non-academic career where work pushed me around the same way.
Best wishes, K.R.
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Charlie replies to K.R.'s questions:
I think that librarians, if willing to work at different types of institutions and libraries, can generally find employment in most areas. The situation is definitely better than in most academic jobs. That said, some markets are still very difficult. I've heard that cities that house large MLIS/PhD programs have very tight markets for all types of librarians. And, of course, some cities have tight job markets all around. Another concern is pay—some locations are still having a difficult time, or so I hear, offering salaries high enough to meet the needs of many librarians.
This means that the market is better (because people shy away from applying to jobs with lower salaries), but the salaries might not necessarily be what you're looking for. I wouldn't say the profession is crying for people, either. I do think, however, that folks with advanced degrees beyond the MLIS generally fare well on the academic library market and generally find success in living in a city where they can be happy. I will be interested to hear the responses of some of the other librarians ...
Charlie
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Lisa answers K.R.'s question:
As in any job search, the more flexible you are, the more likely you are to find what you are looking for. In my case, I limited my job search to the East Coast between Philadelphia and Boston. I ended up right in the middle (New Haven). If you are focusing on one city, it will help to be open to a wide range of positions and to be willing to take a less-than-ideal job for the purpose of 'getting a foot in the door.'
The market is unquestionably much better for librarians than for linguists. I was on the academic market (admittedly, in a half-hearted manner) for about two years and never saw more than a handful of jobs to apply for. I was on the librarian market for only a few months, but I monitored listings for about a year and saw at least a dozen jobs that I would have been very happy with and dozens more I would have considered.
Lisa
P.D. writes to David:
The NYPL Digital Library has become a recent item of discussion in my MLIS class in management at Syracuse University. The discussion concerns reengineering old processes, which sometimes means obliterating old ways of looking at things.
Could you talk about 1.) how the NYPL was able to get all these diverse special collections (and their curators) together for this vast project, and 2.) what you envision for the future of the NYPL Digital Library? (Hint: there was a lot of talk about better federated searching....)
P.D.
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David responds to P.D.:
The selection process for the content of our Digital Gallery was settled before I got here. Curators from the four research centers selected items from their collections which were representative of the larger collections, would be of research interest, and had high visual interest. Since the focus is on images, rather than text, the process was easy in some ways. We have 53m items to choose from!
Planning for the site began in the late 90's and, as you know, a lot has changed on the technology landscape since then. Now that we are working closely with Google and Microsoft/Internet Archive to "ingest" even more digital content, we are now looking at a new digital strategy to integrate all of our digital content to provide "seamless access" across the many files now available. Stay tuned!
Pleased to hear that we are a topic of discussion in Syracuse!
David
Dear WRK4US,
Well, Friday has come to a close, so it's time to end this excellent discussion. (However, Speakers, if you would like to post any final thoughts, by all means go ahead even though the discussion has officially closed. No reason why the discussion cannot continue if you have more to say.)
In any event, even if nothing more gets posted, MANY THANKS to our for wonderful speakers Deborah, David, Charlie, and Lisa! They shared very generously of their time and experience and did a great job of illuminating the field of library science. It was absolutely fascinating and I suspect many subscribers benefited from their efforts. Kudos as well to others who chimed in and made this a rich, productive discussion. Way to go, everyone! The list will now return to its normal state of freeform discussion of any and all nonacademic careers for humanities PhDs. Kudos to all subscribers for making WRK4US such a great place to be.
Your loving list manager,
Paula Foster Chambers