The following Guest Speaker Discussion originally took place on WRK4US in June of the year 2003. Because WRK4US has a confidentiality policy, all names and email addresses have been altered or removed, except for the moderator's and the Guest Speakers'.

The discussion can be read in two ways- by simply scrolling down and reading the whole thing, or by clicking on the topical links below, which take you to specific places within the discussion. The discussion can also be printed out in its entirety for your reading convenience.

Special thanks to Sarah Barr who volunteered her time to edit this discussion and prepare it for posting on the web. If you are interested in editing a future discussion, your help will be much appreciated; email Paula Foster, WRK4US List Manager, at pfchambers@sbcglobal.net

Introduction of Guest Speakers
How did you get here?--Why foreign languages?
Translator Training
Tools of the Trade
Finding Work
Literary Translation
Native Languages
Languages and rapid social change
Attitudes about Languages
Final Thoughts
Close of Discussion

Introduction of Guest Speakers

Matthew Griffin
Translator at a medical engineering comapny

My name is Matt Griffin, and I work as a technical translator. I have a Ph.D. in German from New York University and am employed at a medical engineering company in the NYC area.

I got into translating in graduate school. People would call the German department with odd jobs. It was a way to earn extra money. There wasn't any formal training involved. When it turned out I couldn't find a full-time job teaching, I shrunk my academic experience into a few lines at the bottom of my resume and turned myself into a "writer/translator." That helped me build more experience freelancing. But it still wasn't a living. (Getting freelancing work on a consistent basis is time-consuming.) Two years ago I landed my current position--yes, monster.com--and feel pretty lucky. I was in the right place at the right time.

It hasn't been easy transitioning out of academics. At one point, I had four jobs, adjuncting, translating, tech support, and bookselling. But for the time being, at least, it seems I've found a way to make a living writing.

I didn't go to graduate school to become a teacher. I wanted to live in New York--and write. If all else fails, I told myself, I'll have the language to fall back on. Along the way, I got caught up in the academic profession (the lure of stipends and summers idling) and thought I might have a shot--Oops! When I finished in May 1999 (with distinction), I was still teaching grammar and conversation. Adjuncting... 'nuff said. Based on my experience, there's a complete disconnect between the humanities and the professional world. Look, it's great to finish the dissertation. What they say is true, it frees up your writing, etc., and the ability to complete a project like the dissertation is something you'll draw on whatever your profession. For me, the combination of linguistic and analytical skills is a good fit with my work as a translator. (Plus Germans like the Ph.D.)

People generally think translation is just about moving words around, manipulating letters, like data entry, and imagine tedious work even monkeys could do. There's no sense of the complexity involved in translating meanings or ideas from one language to another. Fact is, to be a good translator you have to be able to write. Translating takes practice, you can't just pick it up. I was lucky at my current job. I had a mentor, the department's director, who taught me the company-specific jargon.

As part of a small team of translators, I translate corporate, marketing and technical documents related to this global company's medical engineering devices and hospital information systems. I am also responsible for editing outsourced assignments and aligning departmental style with company-wide practice. In addition, I work with documentation software to maintain my department's term database.

Working for a translation department, I'm involved in customer relations (scheduling, providing price quotes), research and analysis (of source and target languages as well as intended audience), translating (with a linguistic and cultural proficiency), review and verification (trafficking the translation through the quality assurance loop to ensure accuracy in the target language), DTP (electronic formatting), and billing. We use a "four eyes" principle, reviewing all translations performed in-house prior to returning them to customers. So there's also a lot of editorial work involved.

This is a full-time position, and I like being able to use my bilingual skills in support of a major corporation's communication and documentation solutions. By providing accurate and idiomatic native language texts, my group puts a face on our company's products and services.

Not taking my work home with me is one advantage of my current job over academics. It's nice to have a life apart from work. And although long hours are the norm, it pays better.

According to the ATA, translation in the US is a 19 billion-dollar industry. Still, there aren't many positions for full-time German-to-English translators in the States, and working for a corporation means zero job security. That said, I think of my current position as experience towards a technical/medical writer position. Information technology and the global character of business are bringing technical writing more closely together with translation and terminology management. Our English translations serve as a basis, for instance, for translations into more than a dozen CE label languages throughout the European Union.

So... ask away. I'll try to address your questions and offer more info about translation as a profession.

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Cami Townsend
Translator and Project Manager at a translation company that specializes in legal and financial translation

My name is Cami Townsend and I hail from Vienna, West Virginia. After spending my senior year of high school in Bremen, Germany, as an exchange student, I spent a total of five years in Memphis, Tennessee (4 of which were consumed by my Bachelor's studies); I have been living in Atlanta, Georgia, since spring 1995. My Bachelor's degree is from Rhodes College in Anthropology/Sociology and German. My Master's degree is from the University of Georgia in German.  My life in the academy was confined to the years I studied. My decision to leave, which in my case meant not pursuing a Ph.D., was threefold: (a) there were no doctoral programs in German in the state of Georgia, (b) my husband was becoming more established in his career (and his salary kept us going) and (c) I didn't want be in school any longer.  My first job after college involved teaching German to business professionals at a local for-profit language school. In my spare time, I researched foreign language careers on the Internet and started to learn more about the translation industry in the United States. The language school I worked for picked up on my interest in translation and put me in touch with their sister company, a translation agency, and a former teacher who was working as a freelance translator.  This freelancer and the sister company were the source of my first projects as a translator.  By the fall of 1998 (I had graduated in December 1997), I was practicing as a freelance translator full-time.

My current position fell into my lap. A local translation company owner had read in a recent edition of the monthly magazine published by the American Translators Association (ATA) that I had passed ATA's certification exam and called to ask if I would be interested in talking about a position with his company. I accepted his job offer for three main reasons: (1) the income was going to be comparable to my earnings as a freelancer, but much steadier, (2) I felt that working out of the house again would be good on a personal level, as the separation between work and home was becoming increasingly difficult and (3) I had nothing to lose; the position didn't involve relocating, so if it didn't work out, I felt confident that I could rekindle my freelance business.

What I like most about my job is that I'm using my humanities background and making good money at it. Given the nature of the translation work my company specializes in (legal and financial texts), I have learned about subject areas that I had never been exposed to in my years in the academy. My biggest dislikes are the hours (I often work really late) and the stress of being in and servicing clients in the corporate sector, where everybody is working under cost-savings pressure and the pressure of tight deadlines.  A typical day for me starts with e-mail, to see what projects our overseas and domestic clients have already sent. Our employees meet every morning to discuss what jobs have come in, what jobs are being worked on and what jobs need to go out. In the course of a day, I work on translating documents, editing translations, project managing, prepping complex legal texts for translation, troubleshooting computer glitches to the best of my ability and talking to the boss about both project-specific strategies and long-term strategies for the business. As far as academic life is concerned, I don't miss it at all.  I do think about it, though, in the context of wishing that more foreign language programs prepared their students for foreign language careers outside of the academy. In other words, I look back on my days in undergraduate school and realize that there was something disjointed about jumping from 101 and 201 classes on verb conjugation and declension to upper level classes on Kafka and Goethe.

That's my story. I would be happy to answer any questions you might have about careers in translation.

Kind regards,
Cami Townsend

Melanie Goodman
President, Language Services International
Language.net

I was always academic, and always did well in school.  I was very lucky that I found my life's interest at a young age. I took French in the 8th grade, mostly because my siblings and my father had taken French, so I figured if I needed help, I'd be able to get it easily. Well, I never needed any help.  I did so well and enjoyed it so much that I continued with French throughout high school (including AP French in the 12th grade) and began Spanish in the 10th grade, also excelling at that.

When I went to UCLA (I only applied to one college; isn't that where all native Los Angelinos went to college back in 1971?), I decided to try other disciplines, so I took Psychology, Anthropology, History, etc.  But they did not excite me so, from my second year on, I took French, Spanish and Italian each quarter, along with some Latin, German and Portuguese.  I was a foreign language junky. My French advisor advised me upon graduating with that major that I would be much better off to specialize in one language and study it thoroughly, but I said I didn't care about a future job, I loved languages, I loved the university and I was going to continue to diversify.  I entered the fairly new interdepartmental graduate program of Romance Linguistics and Literature.  I am so glad I did. I probably would not have done most of the wonderful things I have done in my life if I had specialized in just one language.

I figured that, with all my education, a major in foreign languages, and a love of the university life, my future would be in a professorship. My transition from academia to the corporate world was somewhat of a case of being in the right place at the right time, as well as being persistent. While working on my doctorate degree in 1981, I heard about the plans for the 1984 Olympic Games to be held in Los Angeles, and I knew that working in that kind of international environment would be just my thing. A friend of mine in the German department had been contacted by the Manager of the Language Services of the Los Angeles Organizing Committee to do some translation work (as an independent contractor) for them. When I heard that, I got the phone number and called to offer my services. The woman in charge said that they were not hiring at that time. I asked if I could come in for an interview anyway so she would know about me when they would need someone. Well, by the end of the interview, she decided that she did indeed have work for me as an independent contractor, translating foreign press articles in my major foreign languages.  I did that for a year or so, and then, after I passed my Ph.D. exams, I told her I was ready to work full time, and that's what I did. I was in charge of the recruiting, testing, evaluating, training and managing of the volunteer interpreters.  After the exciting and challenging experience of working for the L.A. Olympic Organizing Committee, I knew I wanted to stay in the "corporate" environment, and so I started my own translation company.

As president of a full-service translation company, I am responsible for recruiting, evaluating and assigning translators, interpreters, dialect coaches, voice talent, subtitlers and transcribers. I negotiate and contract with customers, take care of the invoicing and bill paying, and look over all documents before delivery. Having my own company allows me to make my own schedule, to some extent. But it also means that I am constantly thinking about what extra work there is to be done.  I try to give all my customers personal attention and, because of this, I have many repeat customers that date back to the inception of my company. One of the most interesting aspects of my line of work is that I get to know the details of what all my customers are doing.

I know that I am one of the few lucky ones who studied foreign language and was able to actually work with them.  But working as a translator or interpreter is not the only way to do that.  There are all sorts of international companies looking for intelligent people who also happen to know foreign languages. My biggest piece of advice is to be persistent (but in a pleasant way).  Any questions?

Melanie

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Mar Rodríguez
Professional freelance translator

I am Mar Rodríguez, professional freelance translator; my native language is Spanish and, therefore, I usually translate into that language. I did not really start out as a translator, because my degree is actually in English, and I started working as teacher of Spanish to speakers of other languages, first at the U. of Glasgow and then at the U. of Ghana, after which I taught at a High School in the US. Of course, having a degree in English usually means you will become a teacher of that language, but. . .

While at the U. of Glasgow, I started working as a part-time freelance editor and translator, and it was then that I realized I quite enjoyed the job and I had the qualities for it.

Basically, what is needed to be a translator, from my point of view is an excellent knowledge of your own language, together with a good/excellent knowledge of the language(s) you translate from, mixed with a good knowledge of both cultures.

Apart from that, I find that having a thirst to know and to learn new things always comes in handy J. And, of course, you need to try to do your work as best as possible, avoid typos, etc. etc.

As for the freelancer part of it, it needs patience and a bit of discipline. It used to be that translating was a bit of a lonely profession before, but that has ended thanks to the Internet, where you can find lively translators for a and mingle on the web (as well as in real life).

There are lots of things that I enjoy about my profession, one of which is the freedom to decide my own schedule and the fact that I always learn something with every translation.

What I like a bit less is all the paperwork I need to do, not only the invoicing and the keeping track of what I did, when I did it, when I sent the invoice, when is payment due, etc., but also the filling in of forms for taxes, etc., although I am getting better at it.

What I miss about academic life? Mainly, life at University is lively, multicultural and full of new people all the time, who are curious about things (that is one of the reasons why they are studying there, hopefully), and you always get to have good conversations in a cheap University cafeteria J.

I am open to any questions about my work, and I will do my utmost to answer them as fully (and hopefully not boringly) way. Ah! I go to swim in the evening every day, so there may be a delay in the replies during a couple of hours at that moment. . .

First question. .  .

Mar

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How did you get here?--Why foreign languages?

H.D. asks the speakers why they got into the languages they've learned :

Could the panelists say something about what it is that drew them to foreign languages?  Why foreign languages and not any other topic/major? I'd also like to hear what drew you to the language you're expert in--why Japanese and not Korean?

I look forward to your answers --

H.D.


Matt Griffin responds to H.D.:

What drew me to foreign languages studies? The answer requires a bit of biography:  My family lived in Frankfurt in the 1970s--working for the Army--and I attended a German elementary school.  When we returned to the States, I immediately lost it.  Later in high school and college I took German courses. Upon completing a B.A. in English from the University of Texas, Austin, I started searching for something to do after school.  "Don't go to graduate school in English," a favorite prof (in English) warned. I also can't remember checking the career center.  (Anyhow, something so practical probably wouldn't have occurred to me back then.) So I applied to grad programs in German in a few cities where I wanted to live--and went to New York.  The rest was easy.  Basically, German studies meant I could read and write about the major philosophical currents in 20th Century literature and criticism. I miss the theory, but hope someday to be able to reflect on this what I'm doing now and teach on the theory (and practice) of translation. The way things are today in the liberal arts, the philological model has to start giving way to practice at some point.

Matt

P.S. H.D., loved your contributions to the freelance journalism discussion.  The conversation continues... Translators also want to be published by Rolling Stone!

Cami Townsend replies to H.D.:

Great question!

I was drawn to foreign languages, at least on a superficial level, at a very early age.  I learned how to sign the alphabet and say a few simple phrases in American sign language while in elementary school, and then went on to take French and Spanish in high school.  My history with German began when I was a senior in high school who was antsy to experience life outside of my hometown of 30,000.  I applied for and received a scholarship to spend a year in German as an exchange student.  When I started undergraduate school, the German part of my double major in Anthropology/German was easy enough to get the right number of credits for, so I took the necessary courses. Then, after unsuccessful attempts applying to graduate school in Anthropology, I took a more serious look at German and pursued my Master's in it.

Although it wasn't a conscious thought process on my part, my choice of German somehow makes sense to me now, as I look back on a secondary education that was steering me in the direction of mathematics and engineering.  There's a certain geometry and algebra to German grammar which I find myself applying in my translation work everyday, since German does not lend itself well to literal, word-for-word translation, particularly at the syntactic level.

-Cami


Melanie Goodman replies to H.D.:

I got into languages because I just loved learning and speaking them. As I mentioned in my intro, I started French in the 8th grade, did very well in it and enjoyed it. So I just continued to add languages: Spanish is 10th grade, Italian as an undergrad, Portuguese, German and Latin in graduate school. I went on the Junior Year Abroad program in France, and then also to Italy as a grad student. When I taught French at UCLA, I encouraged all my students to do that (and wrote several letters of recommendation for them), saying that the best thing they could do at college was go on the Junior Year Abroad program. Even if they lost the year academically, they would gain so much more from the experience. And knowing languages when traveling is such an advantage.

Melanie

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Translator Training

Subscriber D.Z. asks about gaining experience and training as a translator:

Greetings everyone. Thank you in advance for any advice you might offer today.

I relocated to the Boston area approximately 8 months ago after a year-long stint in Japan. I am considering a career in Japanese/English & English/Japanese patent translation, as well as some literary translation, but I would like to know more about how to garner experience and where I can find an education tailored to the requirements of translation. The steps I am currently taking to achieve my career goals include studying for this October's LSAT in the hopes of attending law school in the fall of 2004 and studying for the Japan Economic Trade Organization's Japanese Business Proficiency test to certify my language ability.

Any advice on where to find experience or a quality education would be deeply appreciated. Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Kind regards,

D.Z.

Cami Townsend replies to D.Z.:

Dear D.Z.,

Kent State University, NYU, and the Monterey Institute of International Studies (MIIS) have T&I [Translation and Interpretation] degree programs. This is not an exhaustive list of all the programs out there, and I hope I'm not misquoting anything. Of those, I am almost 100% certain that MIIS offers training in Japanese/English.

Regarding your interest in patent translation, the Japanese Language Division of ATA published a handbook on Japanese patent translation a few years back. It and many other publications that might be of interest to readers can be found on ATA's website: www.atanet.org. To go back to W.Y.'s question about salaries, there's a 2003 Translation and Interpreting Compensation Survey that can be ordered through ATA, as well as a handful of how-to guides.

Kind regards,
Cami Townsend



W.Y. posts an initial question about getting into translation and salary:

Hello,

I am a fluent speaker and writer of Spanish. I earned my B.A. in Modern Foreign Languages & Literature. Prior to finishing my B.A. in 1998 I spent a year studying and working in Bogota, Colombia. I'm about to finish my MA in Intercultural Communication (Hispanic Studies focus) and have been taking translation classes over the past few semesters. Since starting the MA, I have been taking advanced classes in Spanish: Writing, Linguistics, History of the Spanish Language, etc. I also work at constantly improving and expanding my knowledge of Spanish.  I would like to pursue translation as a career, but have some concerns.

From what I've been able to find out it seems that not many translators consistently earn $45,000 a year or more, and that's the minimum income I need to start out with to feel secure.

Did you go for ATA certification? If so, how long was it from the time you started preparing until you passed the ATA exam? What did you think of the exam?

How long did it take to prep for the ATA exam, and what were your preparations like?

When you first started translating in graduate school, did you have any idea what translation was really about?

How would you describe the change in your understanding of translation and the quality of the translations you produced from your time in Grad school to now?

What did you do to build and maintain your language skills apart from taking classes? Are you familiar with "Schau ins Land"?

What advice would you have for someone who wants to be a translator and earn a good living?

Thank you very much.

W.Y.


Cami Townsend replies to W.Y.:

I would like to respond to some of W.Y.'s questions.

My translator training was a combination of self-teaching, having a mentor and taking classes at Georgia State University. Translation is an exercise in reading comprehension and writing. Not only must you be capable of reading and understanding the text that you are translating (the source text), you must also be familiar with similar texts in the language you are translating into (the target language) and capable of writing texts that effectively communicate the source text's message to a reader who has no knowledge of the source text and/or can't read the language it was written in.

I took me about 1-1.5 years to become comfortable with the translation of legal and financial texts. Given that I do not have a law background, the extent of legal translation I do is limited to the types of texts that I, as a layperson, am confronted with most often: i.e., contracts, correspondence from law firms, documents being used in litigation. I do not, for example, translate court opinions.

For those who don't know, the ATA is the American Translators Association, an organization comprised of 8,000-9,000 individual, institutional and corporate members. The number of degree programs in T&I (translation & interpreting) is limited in the U.S. ATA offers a voluntary credentialing program currently known as the ATA "accreditation" exam. It is a practical exam consisting of passages to translate. Interested candidates can order practice texts from ATA, which are made up of previous exam passages and are graded just like the real thing. For anybody who is going to sit for the exam, I recommend ordering the practice passages. This is the only way to really know what to expect. However, doing so costs money, so candidates should also do self-preparation by finding texts on their own to translate.

Do I think the exam is worth taking? I do. For lack of a better description, one of the main reasons I think it's worth it is brand recognition. In a country where there are few opportunities for formal T&I training, having the ATA credential says something to potential employers.

I think the salaries that translators earn vary, as they do in any other profession. What somebody earns depends on their work environment (freelancing vs. public-sector employee vs. private-sector employee, etc.) and the number of years in the profession. I wouldn't say that you can expect a salary of $45,000 right off the bat (although I also wouldn't say it never happens), but it and even higher salary levels are realistically attainable.

Kind regards,
Cami Townsend

P.S.
To go back to W.Y.'s question about salaries, there's a 2003 Translation and Interpreting Compensation Survey that can be ordered through ATA [www.atanet.org.], as well as a handful of how-to guides.


Matt Griffin replies to W.Y.:

Hi, W.Y.

Thanks for the questions about the transition from education to translation.

We all wear different hats in our daily lives, and I have my assortment as a translator. I've done literary translations since college. Mostly for fun. Later in grad school I translated plays, essays, and fiction. Some for fun, some for recognition, but seldom for money.  Of course, the dissertation was also a translation project.  No doubt there's an element of copying another writer's style to assimilate it that informs all this work.

I still try to do literary translations and maintain contact with the editors and authors I've worked with in the past.  Meanwhile, I've begun serving as a reviewer for a NY arts organization, providing translation reviews.

Yet another headpiece translators can wear is ATA accreditation... The American Translators Association is the only organization of its kind in the States, and as with similar professional associations the range of responses it elicits is broad.

I know translators with degrees in translation who refuse to take the accreditation exam because the conditions of the exam do not reflect the way translators actually work. Paper, pencil and dictionaries are allowed.  Word processors and online resources aren't.  The test is apparently not so difficult, technically speaking, but the standards are harsh. And while a sample test is indispensable, it's an additional expense on top of a hefty exam fee.

ATA accreditation is not a requirement at my current job.  In fact, I find the Ph.D. communicates my qualifications to customers--as well as prospective employers. Medical engineering is a highly specialized field, and for me it's the job experience that counts.

That said, my company recently paid for individual memberships for the German-English group, and I'm planning to take the exam. I figure it's a way to bolster my credentials for the future, and get involved in an organization essential to the profession.

Finally, if you want to make real money, you should choose another profession, one with greater career opportunities and better salaries.  If, however, you want to transition out of academics based on foreign language know-how, translation is a good option.

Best,
Matt Griffin


Cami Townsend points out the diversity of translation work:

In his last exchange, Matt mentioned that "if you want to make real money, you should choose another profession, one with greater career opportunities and better salaries."  I imagine that there are several translators out there, freelancers and in-house staff alike, who would beg to differ.

List participants should bear in mind that the T&I industry as a whole is comprised of diverse opportunities. In-house positions run the gamut, from jobs with small independent translation firms or with translation departments at banks and manufacturing companies to staff positions at places like the UN and the Inter-American Development Bank. There are full-time freelancers, part-time freelancers, court interpreters and translators, medical interpreters working at hospital call centers, and the list goes on.  Bear in mind, too, that in addition to translation and interpretation, the T&I profession also offers opportunities for project management. Project managers are essential to translation agencies, as they coordinate the heavy workload from clients with a host of independent contractors and in-house staff.

In short, for most of the people I have met in the profession, translation is not just a "transition." It has become their life's work, and one with which they've been able to make a decent living, too.

-Cami


G.I. asks about pay differentials and getting sued:

Following this discussion has been very interesting and enlightening. I have two final questions.

Are some areas of specialization better paid than others, once one has put in the effort to learn about them and their terminology (financial, legal, or medical, for example)

And is there a chance of being sued if you make an error that can be construed as damage? I once heard that there is a kind of insurance against this type of legal claim. (Like malpractice insurance.)

G.I.


Cami Townsend replies to G.I.:

G.I., of the specializations that you mentioned, I would not say that one is paid better than the other. The differences in rates, at least in my experience, are more language-based than specialization-based. Turnaround also plays a factor in what translators and companies charge.

As in any other profession, there is always a chance of being sued, and the type of insurance that you can purchase is known as professional liability insurance. I believe you can get the name of a company that underwrites policies for the translation profession by looking at ATA's publications. In a freelancer-agency relationship, it is generally the agency that is more exposed, because, from their client's perspective, it is the agency that bears the ultimate responsibility for the project.

-Cami

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Tools of the Trade

Pen and paper VS. word processing and the Internet

G.I. asks Matt Griffin about tools of the trade:

Matt, you wrote (regarding the ATA exam), "the conditions of the exam do not reflect the way translators actually work. Paper, pencil and dictionaries are allowed. Word processors and online resources aren't." I have been doing odd-job translations while in grad school and also translated three articles for publication in English by various non-native academics. I've been using: paper, pencil, and dictionaries.  What are you thinking of when you write about online resources? Internet dictionaries and glossaries? Do "real" translators use special software to create their own terminology glossaries?  Do you think it is necessary to purchase and learn to use translation software if one is serious about free-lancing?

Thanks for your thoughts on this,
G.I.


Subscriber F.L., a freelance translator, replies to G.I.:

I am not one of the speakers but I am a freelance translator.  I would like to share my personal experience about the "paper and pencil" issue. If you have to deliver 8,000 words a day, paper and pencil won't be enough.  Besides, you have to be able to deal with different file formats to attend your clients (PDFs, Quark files, PageMaker, MPG, Illustrator, JPG, Word, Corel are a few). To maintain a consistent terminology, the use of translation memories are a must. The internet is used not only to consult dictionaries and glossaries, but also reference materials, web pages, colloquialisms, idioms, etc. Also, I have not delivered a project in hard copy (paper) in ages--it is all electronic files, either by e-mail or ftp.

So the ATA accreditation test is as far from reality as it could be. After working 10 or 12 hours a day in the computer for more than 10 years, to translate even a sentence with a pencil became a foreign process to me. I find that I have to slow down my thought processes and even change them.  Tools I take for granted (spellchecker, auto correction, macros to facilitate, etc) are not available. But all this can be overcome.  What really "discredits" the test is the format: you have to choose at least 3 texts among 5 offered, and each one has a different subject.  So, if you are strictly a literary translator, you will choose the literary text but will also have to translate an economic or legal text, for example. For engineers (or translators specialized in engineering), the technical text is too simple, but they will probably have difficulties with the marketing one. After all is said and done, there isn't yet an accreditation standard in the industry. Not all agencies value the ATA accreditation; some don't even ask you if you are an ATA member; others will only work with accredited members. Different clients will require different credentials.

My two cents :-)
Cheers,

F.L.
English-Portuguese translator and interpreter


Cami Townsend replies to G.I.:

Intimate familiarity with word processing software and use of the Internet for research are essential to good translation. This is also true due to the time constraints in the profession. The couple of pages that a third party might ask a graduate student to translate over the course of a few weeks have to be done within 1 day, and sometimes within just a few hours, by your average "real" translator.

The use of what are generally known as CAT tools in the profession (CAT = computer-assisted translation) varies. Even if they don't use them on a daily basis, most translators know about a particular subset of CAT tools referred to as MT [TM] (translation memory) applications, which help them recycle information and terms from previous translations. The extent to which MT [TM] is useful to a translator depends on the type of texts s/he translates (is there any significant repetition between texts?) and whether or not the texts are available as electronic files (if they're not, you can usually forget using MT [TM]).  At my company, about 75% of our work comes in as an electronic file, while the other 25% arrives as hardcopy. However, even though most of our work is available electronically, the amount of repetition between the texts we do is negligible. Therefore, we tend to use only those components of MT [TM] products that help us manage terminology. For example, say I slave for 2 hours looking through paper dictionaries, CD-ROM dictionaries, monolingual books and online resources to find out that "Beleihungsgrenze" means "loan-to-value ratio" in my document, I'll want to share that information with my colleagues, so I add the term to our database.

To answer your question more directly, no, you don't necessarily have to purchase the MT [TM]  software that's out there, but you probably should be familiar with it and might want to invest it in if you find yourself translating the same type of documents over and over again.  Also, many dictionaries that translators find useful are available on CD-ROM these days.  When finding one term means looking through several dictionaries, translators find it much easier to click between windows rather than turn away from the computer and thumb through several dictionaries.  Then again, some of the best dictionaries are still only available in paper...

Cami


Matt Griffin responds to G.I.:

We use the software Trados at my office to create a TM [translation memory] for our translations.  It's sort of our institutional memory, and I fully agree with F.L. that translation memories are a must.

If you're thinking of freelancing, buy the Trados freelance version. It's indispensable.  Having translated without it prior to my current job, I can tell you about handwritten glossaries and the difficulties maintaining accuracy and consistency.

Terminology work is becoming increasingly important as the electronic media change the business of translation.  And the Internet is just one aspect of the overall trend toward the reproducibility of information. To remain competitive and profitable, agencies (and freelancers) have to be able to recycle and update translations based on previous work.  Some of our biggest projects involve updates to 1,000-page operating manuals. Based on previous translations, we are able to create updated translations in a matter of days, even hours.  Is it translation?  Of course, it is. There's no need to be afraid just because we haven't learned IT skills for reading Paul Celan.

Matt

Mar Rodrigues adds a note about Trados software:

About Trados, a good thing is getting it through the offers at ProZ. They usually get good deals on it, through Translators Group Buying :-).

Regards,
Mar


Cami Townsend responds to Matt:

I couldn't agree with Matt more about how electronic media are changing the face of translation (giving birth to TM, or translation memory, which I mistakenly labeled as MT in one of my previous postings; MT = machine translation). His point, "Is it translation? Of course, it is," couldn't be truer. After all, the content that TM programs recycle was input by human translators to begin with.

Cami


Translators' Resources

Matt Griffin offers some resources:

The German playwright Heiner Mueller was once sued for plagiarizing a translation of Hamlet. As evidence of the theft, the plaintiff argued that translating Shakespeare's play in two months--as Mueller claimed to have done--was humanly impossible. Only a genius could do it! Precisely, argued the defense, my client IS a genius. Needless to say, Mueller won, but this doesn't mean I believe translation is a strictly intuitive activity. It's not. Translation involves various tools and techniques, many of which may not be readily apparent at the outset.

Here are a few online dictionaries I regularly use as a GE-EN translator.
http://dict.leo.org
http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de
http://www.tecnologix.de/laixicon
http://www.foreignword.com

Hardcopy dictionaries are essential. Here is a sampling from the different fields I work in:
- Ferretti, Vittorio. Dictionary of Electronics, Computing and Telecommunications, 2 Vols. Springer, 2000.
- Reuter, Peter and Chistine Reuter. Thieme Leximed: Medizinisches Woerterbuch. 2 Vols. Thieme, 1996.
- DeVries, Louis. German-English Technical and Engineering Dictionary. McGraw-Hill, 1966.
- Schaefer, Wilhelm. Wirtschaftswoerterbuch. 2 Vols. Vahlen, 1991.

Thieme and Springer offer a wide variety of medical reference works. Visit their Web sites. Cami, what are your preferences for legal and financial dictionaries?

The topic of translator message boards or discussion groups came up--Can the person who mentioned these provide links?

Matt


Cami Townsend shares some of her favorite resources:

Matt, dictionaries I wouldn't be without include:

Romain, Woerterbuch der Rechts- und Wirtschaftssprache, (C.H. Beck'sche Verlagsbuchhandlung)for LEGAL

Dietl/Lorenz, Dictionary of Legal, Commercial and Political Terms (also C.H. Beck) for LEGAL (available on CD-ROM, as well)

Creifelds Rechtswoerterbuch (also C.H. Beck) for LEGAL, an excellent monolingual source when you need to find out just what the German means

Zahn, Dictionary of Banking and Stock Trading (Fritz Knapp Verlag) for FINANCIAL

Volhard/Weber/Usinger, Real Property in Germany: Legal and Tax Aspects of Development and Investment for LEGAL/REAL ESTATE. This book is not a dictionary, but offers some excellent explanations of what's involved in real estate translactions in Germany. Includes both a German key word and English key word index. Whole sections of text are devoted to explaining German real estate concepts and terminology.

We have English editions of several of the major acts and laws, including the German Civil Code (Buergerliches Gesetzbuch, BGB) and the German Stock Corporation Act (Aktiengesetz, AktG). These are extremely helpful when contracts and prospectuses make references to specific provisions of the acts. We have a straight English translation of the former by Schneider and Heidenhain (C.H. Beck), and a side-by-side bilingual edition of the latter by Peltzer and Hickinbotham (Verlag Dr. Otto Schmidt).

Barron's Financial Guides (monolingual English) are excellent resources, too. There's a Dictionary of Finance and Investment Terms that I use several times each week.

-Cami


Mar Rodríguez shares some favorite resources too:

Hello, Matt,
>
> The topic of translator message boards or discussion groups came up--Can the person who >mentioned these provide links?

Definitely. I know mostly of fora that have to do with Spanish, because that is the language I work with:

- TraducciÛn en EspaÒa (Translation in Spain):

TraducciÛn en EspaÒa <TRADUCCION@LISTSERV.REDIRIS.ES> To subscribe, you have to send a message to listserv@listserv.rediris.es , writing, in the body of the message: subscribe "name of list" "your name", for example: suscribe traducciÛn Pepe Garcia
This page has info on the list: http://www.rediris.es/list/info/traduccion.es.html

- TermXchange: Terminology Exchange List:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/termxchange

- Translist: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/translist/
Translist is intended to help native speakers in translating difficult or obscure terms into their own language. Subscribers should not post queries asking for help in translating into a language which is not their native tongue.
To start a new Translist subscription, send a blank message to:
<translist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com> To terminate a Translist subscription, send a blank message to: <translist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> To receive all Translist postings of the past 24 hours compiled into a single e-mail message, send a blank message to: <translist-digest@yahoogroups.com> To receive each Translist posting as a separate e-mail message, send a blank message to:
<translist-normal@yahoogroups.com>

- Spanish translators: Specifically for Spanish<>English translators:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sptranslators/
PARA PUBLICAR MENSAJES: sptranslators@yahoogroups.com PARA RECIBIR MENSAJES INDIVIDUALES: Enviar un mensaje en blanco a sptranslators-normal@yahoogroups.com PARA RECIBIR EL COMPENDIO: sptranslators-digest@yahoogroups.com PARA LEER MENSAJES EN EL SITIO WEB SIN RECIBIRLOS (ir de vacaciones): sptranslators-nomail@yahoogroups.com   DARSE DE BAJA: sptranslators-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com COMUNICARSE CON LA MODERADORA: sptranslators-owner@yahoogroups.com REGLAS/PREGUNTAS FRECUENTES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sptranslators/files

- Translators Network: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/translators-network/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: translators-network-unsubscribe@egroups.com

- For Spanish audiovisual translators: Trag: www.YahooGroups.com/group/trag Msjs. a la lista: trag@YahooGroups.com - Darse de baja: trag-unsubscribe@YahooGroups.com - Consultar servicios de TRAG: www.YahooGroups.com/group/trag

- For exchange of glossaries: GlossPost: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GlossPost/

- To know whether the agency that has just contacted you pays on time or not: Payment Practices: The policies of the list and all other info you might need (addresses and info for managing your subscription, how to inquire, respond or report your experiences, etc.) are at http://www.trwenterprises.com/payment_practices.htm -- each subscriber is responsible for reading and understanding the policies of this list.

- To check out agencies, again: Translation Client Review: > TRANSLATION CLIENT REVIEW: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TCR

- For possible jobs:
Jobs for translators: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobs-translators/ The principal rules governing the use of this mailing list are at http://www.infomarex.ie/infomarex/faqs/faqs-jobstranslators.htm Anyone may post a job, in accordance with the rules above, by sending it to jobs-translators@yahoogroups.com To access the archives of the group, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobs-translators/messages/

- For more jobs:
Translator Jobs: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tr_jobs/
To subscribe to the mailing list, send a message to tr_jobs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com  To unsubscribe, send a message to tr_jobs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

- I do not know whether this one is still going on, the last thing I knew was that they were going to start doing a sort of newsletter or similar: Technical Translators Forum:
> T E C H N I C A L T R A N S L A T O R S ' F O R U M >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/techtranslation/

I think that is about most I know, there are also lists for Trados Users, etc. etc.
Good luck,
Mar


Mar Rodríguez adds another resource:

Hello again,

I completely forgot it until this morning (I was replying messages yesterday after translating my 5 Thursday medical articles, getting my daughter to sleep, etc....): there is another forum for jobs only, mainly having to do with Spanish, but with other language combinations:
TrabajLenguas:
Mensajes a la lista: trabaj-lenguas@elistas.net  Para darse de baja: mensaje en blanco a trabaj-lenguas-baja-aguamariaes=yahoo.com@eListas.net 
Good luck,
Mar

Back to Top

Finding Work

Subscriber J.A. asks how to find work:

I have a question:

I worked pretty frequently as a translator and interpreter before graduate school--but abroad. Since then, I've done some project work and some literary translation, and currently am translating a novel under contract. Some of this work has been well-paid, and some of it has been for love, but it has all been "serendipity" based. My question is, how would I go about "creating" serendipity--or rather, finding other work here? Are agencies a good way to go? Are there unscrupulous or exploitative agencies or ones with better reps, like literary agents? Is this an area where some cold-calling/emailing of companies with international profiles might do some good or is this another situation where you kind of just have to network or know someone?

Thanks!

J.A.


Cami Townsend replies to J.A. that there is plenty of work but should research before contacting companies:

The answer to most of your questions is "yes." Interestingly enough, it's an issue that not only independent contractors face, but one that translation companies face, as well. Unless you're the in-house documentation team for a company that has its own internal need for translation (read guaranteed source of work), where does your bread and butter come from?

If I knew a clean, straightforward answer, there might be a job as a marketing consultant out there for me. I will say this, however: there's enough work to keep companies like ours and several thousands, if not tens of thousands/maybe even more individuals afloat.

Let me also add that as a translator and project manager for a translation company I am annoyed by the number of unsolicited resumes we receive from people who know nothing about our language needs or the kind of company we are. In other words, an expert in literary translation from Turkish will not find any work with us because (1) we do only a handful of Turkish jobs a year and (2) they are not literary translations. So before you do any sort of mass mailing or even before you pick up the phone, try to research your potential sources of work by other means so that you can narrow down the list some. Good translators risk being overlooked if they are not careful in how they approach a company.

-Cami

Subscriber C.S. asks how to research possible sources of translation work:

I'd like to echo J.A.'s queries about finding translation work--but as a graduate student studying for a MFA in literary translation I feel much more at the beginning of such an endeavor. Cami mentioned the importance of researching potential sources of work before sending out resumes, which makes absolute sense, but my question is how to find such sources of work?

Whenever I tell people about what I want to do, I seem to get the universal, "I'm sure you'll find a job somewhere--there must be lots of places that need translators." While there may not be an answer to this question, I put it out to the panelists ... how does one go about researching and/or finding translation opportunities (literary and technical)?

With sincere thanks for any and all responses,
C.S.


Subscriber M.A. suggests these resources for finding translation work:

Check out www.proz.com ; translationdirectory.com and others.


Cami Townsend replies to C.S.:

Even if you're not an ATA member, you can access the organization's online services directory, which is broken down into an individual and a corporate member list. You can find the names of several translation agencies there. Bear in mind, however, that not all corporate members list online. To obtain a complete list of all ATA corporate members, which numbers around 400, I think, you would need the printed ATA directory, and to get that, you must be a member.

Direct clients are harder to come by, of course, because it requires knowing about what type of texts you can translate and searching for companies that need your services. Getting lists from regional chambers of commerce, like the GACC Matt mentioned, is an option, but getting sources of work that way takes patience, persistence and accepting the possibility that no work may come of it at all.

If it all possible, seek out a mentor (i.e., somebody already working as a freelancer) and offer to help him or her with terminology and office work.  You may soon find yourself helping with overflow, as well, and being recommended when s/he can't accept a job.

There are some web portals out there which are set up to advertise and let potential translators bid on jobs: www.proz.com is one. Keep in mind, however, that the clients posting jobs are often looking for the lowest bid only. In other words, the risk is that quality isn't a concern. ProZ also offers networking opportunities with fellow translators and ways to post and receive answers on terminology questions.

The rates you'll get from agencies are generally lower than those with direct clients, because agencies have to cover their overhead and have specific profit margins in mind. Direct clients just need your help.  Billing in my experience is done mostly on a per-word basis, particularly for straight translation. Hourly billing occurs, as well. Per-page and per-line billing (line = 55 characters with spaces) are European standards. Microsoft Word has built-in tools that count words and characters.

All of the options I'm describing above are mostly for technical translation (legal, financial, medical, scientific, etc.).

Something that we haven't addressed on the list yet is specialization. Both Matt and I have mentioned the areas that we work in. Sometimes newcomers to the profession don't realize the need to focus on a particular subject area in their translation work and can get into trouble accepting assignments for which they don't have any expertise. For example, I would be the last person in the world to translate something medical. Specialization with languages of limited diffusion, such as Turkish, is difficult, however, because the amount of work out there is less. Some would say that even the Scandinavian languages are included in this category.

Also, this doesn't necessarily apply to this particular message, but it occurred to me to mention that the ATA guidelines for taking the accreditation exam are changing and starting in the 2004 exam year, I believe, candidates will have to meet certain prerequisites before they can take the test. Continuing education requirements are also being introduced for maintaining the credential.

-Cami


Mar Rodríguez offers 13 ideas about finding work:

Hello,

Ah! The issue of finding jobs... I guess it really depends on how you start out. There are several ideas that immediately come to my mind, and I apologize if they are not always applicable:

1. It would be a good thing to sit down and decide first what type of translation you are qualified to do: languages, field of specialization, computer tools at your disposal... If you just have two languages/cultures, then you may be able to do general translation at first, then check out what hobbies or interests you have and try to find work there. If you are lucky and you have two languages/cultures + specialized knowledge, that is, you are a lawyer, doctor, engineer, philosopher, art historian... then you need to research what agencies deal with your 'field of specialization', contact them and keep approaching clients. Let's say you are a lawyer: you could check out big legal companies or insurance companies, who would probably have international clients, approach lawyers around your area, because they may get an international client, try to get accredited as a court interpreter, etc. etc.

The fact that you start out with one specialization, by the way, does not mean you can not add others, so you can start out with legal translation, for example, and then add some business, etc. etc., although generally you can not have too many fields of specialization, by definition.

2. It does take time to get clients, so it may be a good idea to keep a part-time job for financial reasons while starting out as a freelancer.

3. It is a good idea to have a presence on the Internet: having a web page may give good results.

4. Make sure people around you know that you are a translator: you never know who is going to offer a project to you.

5. If contacting an agency (and there are bad ones and really excellent ones), the first approach should NOT have your CV as an attachment: I have found out that Project Managers tend to be overworked and the last thing in their mind is usually to go through somebody's CV when they do not know the person; plus, CV's occupy a lot of space if you send a .doc file, and most people (myself included) do not open attachments because of a possible virus. What I have found useful is to write a short letter of introduction, stating who I am, how I know about the agency, what I can do for them and then asking if they would like me to send them my CV. This way they do not delete my message straightaway (which they would probably do if it came with an attachment), I show them I am interested, and they can contact me if they want. Of course, the text of the e-mail needs to have your contact data (I put my signature as default to my e-mail messages, then I delete it if not necessary, such as this case).

6. You can check out the telephone book and see what translation agencies and language schools there are in your area, and just go around introducing yourself and leaving your business card. If the person in charge is there, make sure you talk to her/him, if s/he is not, then maybe you can make an appointment... Secretaries are also OK, depending on their attitude :-).

7. You can also check the Internet for translation agencies and contact them.

8. There are lists of translators and websites to find jobs: one is TranslatorJobs, there is another one, I think, called Jobs for Translators; then, of course, there is ProZ and Aquarius, where there are listings of jobs, and recently TranslatorsCafe, and some others. If people are interested, I can check my files and see (although I may not find it, because I have changed computers recently and I still have to check the old ones together with the new one...) ,I remember there was a posting in one of the fora I belong to that had a bunch of potential job sources for translators. There are different lists for translators of different languages. There is also TrabajLenguas, etc.

9. Do some networking: join a translators' fora (even if not for the jobs, you can 'talk' to other people with your same interests), take courses you are interested in, etc.

10. Sometimes the contacts you make do not give immediate fruits: you may contact a possible client and hear from them one year later. Give time for the seed you have planted: it will grow, and, when the occasion is ripe, come to light and you will receive a job offer.

11. It is always good to remember that translators nowadays use computers a lot. Therefore, get acquainted with them: learn to use the Internet, FTP's, e-mail, search engines... Check out the programmes that you can use, especially for texts, but also for DTP, image viewing, Website edition and translation... They may not be useful at once, but nothing you learn in this respect is lost.

12. If you are going to be doing technical translation or if you think you are going to be updating projects, etc. it is a good idea to get a translation memory programme: DejaVu, Trados, SDLX, StarTransit, etc. Most of them have demo programmes you can download and check out, and some of them are not very expensive and sometimes even free (I think StartTransit is still free for freelancers...). They help a lot as far as consistency is concerned, and they ease the workload.

13. For people in academia, too, some Universities have publishing teams within the University itself. Find out whether they need your services and let them know you exist. Knowing that they have an expert on Ancient Celtic Religion may not be interesting for the general public, but it may be for a University who wants to publish a research book on it...

I hope this helps. Let me know if you would like the file with URL's for work, etc.

Good luck,

Mar


Mar Rodríguez offers another thought on finding work:

Another thing I forgot and which I was not too conscious about when I started freelancing (I still have to convince my husband about it ;-)): it is part of your job as a freelance translator to find clients and to keep your paperwork (or pay somebody to do it for you). That is, you are working, not only when you are translating, but also when you are preparing an invoice for the project you have done, when you are calling Ms. Herrera to check out on whether the brochure is ready to be sent to you for translating and when you are browsing the Internet trying to find out if Agency X, who has offered you a project, pays well or has payment problems... All this time is WORK time, consider it as such.

Good luck,

Mar


Matt Griffin responds to the questions about finding work and asks about strategies for business development:

I'm glad this topic came up... Finding work isn't easy--especially as a freelancer--and I wonder if some of the other panelists and translators wouldn't mind sharing their experiences and strategies for business development.

Listening to our stories, you'd think translators just bumble along from job to job, and when I started out I didn't know where to begin. I had my few small agencies I'd worked for off and on for a few years, but jobs weren't consistent. I contacted the German-American Chamber of Commerce in New York for a list of German companies in the States. Many cover letters later, I had a few callbacks and one underpaid book project. Nothing consistent ever came out of this effort.

Today when I'm looking for freelance work, I focus on the larger agencies like Bowne and Lionbridge. Most companies want outsource solutions, and the trend is toward giving translation business to the major agencies capable of handling many languages and topics. Does anyone have any thoughts about working with agencies?

And... while we're talking business, what do you usually charge? I know rates depend on the language, and each job is different, blah blah, but it's important to have a standard. Our department's billing, which is based on character count and a page divisor, is so complicated as to be deliberately opaque. In the past I've used all sorts of methods--charging by word, page, and hour.  For instance, I usually charge 15-18 cents per word, depending on the difficulty of the text. On the other hand, I've had book jobs that come out to 7 cents/wd. My office pays freelancers between 13-15 cents/word, and $35/hr for proofreading. What standards do you use?

Matt


Subscriber N.J. responds to Matt's questions:

>"My office pays freelancers between 13 - 15 cents/word, and $35/hr for proofreading. What standards do you use?"<
--(does your office need a Spanish, Portuguese > English translator? :) )

Price ranges for various languages / fields can be researched at http://www.proz.com/ -- look for the community pricing to see means as well as highs and lows. Individual translator profiles also often have this information. In-demand languages (Eastern Europe, Middle East) get a significant markup over my Western European languages (Spanish, Portuguese, English). Same goes with Russian, where they have highly skilled people translating for almost nothing.

Speaking as an on-again, off-again freelance translator, I see European agencies offering $0.04-$0.10 per source word, usually in the $0.05-$0.07 range for translating. Editing ranges from $0.005 per word to $0.05--with 1 or 2 cents a word being what I have seen lately. But Asian, East European and South American translations agencies are often only paying 1 or 2 cents per word for translations... and I expect they are getting people for those prices, although the quality of the translation may be fairly low. Some US agencies are moving in that direction as well.

My own translations (technical and commercial rather than literary) are ideally priced at $0.09 to $0.11 per word, more for technical subjects. My languages are sources: Spanish, Portuguese, English; targets: Spanish, English. I do editing in Spanish and English, and my 4 cent a word averages out to around $40 an hour in Spanish, $45 or $50 in English.

>"Does anyone have any thoughts about working with agencies?"<
Finding work is a completely different sort of problem--again, I use the ProZ website, and I have gotten a couple of things from there. Often there are translation agencies that say they are expanding their databases and want to see lots of CVs/resumes--I have picked up a couple jobs from that. I have gone to the Web and found translation agency websites and filled out their application forms, and a couple of jobs have developed from that.

I have done some work for local clients too, but that has mostly been serendipity. For example, a local pharmacy chain needed something in Spanish, so they contacted the foreign language department where I work, and the job eventually filtered down to me. The local clients get charged more, too, since there isn't a translation agency involved as a middleman. ($0.16 per word was what I charged, but I have seen translation agencies charging $0.10 to $.045 per word, depending on the languages involved, the subject and the timeframe for delivery. Again, the Web is a great tool--lots of agencies on-line have a price guide, which is what I used to help me decide what to charge.)

If I were a freelancer all the time, then I suspect I would have to start marketing myself to the local companies, pharmacies, doctor's offices and law firms in order to drum up business, but since I have a fulltime job, I do the freelancing a bit more haphazardly, trying to balance research and teaching versus translation/consulting.

N.J.


Matt replies to N.J.:

Our department is always looking for freelancers, and you're welcome to send me your resume--after the discussion. I'll forward it to the appropriate person, and you'll probably receive a sample test. We do all types of work, but it helps to have a background translating medical engineering or IT material.  Most of what we get is related to imaging systems like MRI and CT. But it's not all technical.  We translate for other divisions, too, like materials handling automation, and get a wide variety of work, including employee communications and newsletters.

N.J., thanks for your response. I've had a similar hit-or-miss experience generating business with agencies. One reason, I think, is that agencies look for translators who are available full-time.  At my current job, we have 2-3 GE-EN translators who we consistently use and rely on for outsource work.  The turnaround is too tight and the learning curve too short to cast about for untried translators.

Matt


Matt Griffin asks Cami Townsend more about drumming up business:

Hi, Cami

Isn't your boss--and your company's founder--also the president of the ATA? Obviously, connections are key and customer relationships have to be built up, etc., but would you mind saying a bit more about how your agency goes about developing business? From your remarks, it's apparent that the ATA is an important element in your business plan.

In my office, our director travels 3-4 times a year to Germany to drum up business with the different divisions. Translators also travel (less frequently) to sites to work on specific projects and train in the product and service modalities.

You mentioned your boss's background in legal. Who are some of the big (or small) agencies that do this kind of work? Do you have a preferred vendor for your outsource work?

Matt


Cami Townsend answers:

Matt, yes, my boss, the company's founder, is also ATA President. Obviously, that's a plus for our marketing efforts, because it conveys to potential clients that we take professional development seriously. However, being ATA President takes up a lot of time. Therefore, our business development has also suffered some as a result.

Like your director, my boss travels to Europe to drum up business. We get a substantial amount of work from his former law firm and from the referrals generated by that particular connection. Our marketing efforts largely concentrate on law firms and include direct mailings in the form of brochures and newsletters, as well as sales calls to remind existing clients that we're here. Anytime somebody new joins our team, we e-mail our clients to let them know about the newcomer and how s/he might be able to serve the clients' particular language needs. We are also corporate sponsors of a local paralegal association and try to drop our name at association events and conferences.

Most translation agencies are not like ours in that they do not specialize. The few I know that do (in either legal or financial work) are Geotext (New York - legal), Fry & Bonthrone (Germany - financial), Alinea (Germany - financial) and Corporate Language Services (Switzerland, London, New Jersey - financial). Most of these companies have in-house translators. We rely on in-house staff and freelancers. Whenever possible, we only outsource to freelancers who are accredited/certified and/or have a legal background (in some of the languages, that's a lot to ask). Like most agencies and companies, however, we've been burned by freelancers who lack the skills to produce quality translations. For that reason and for obvious financial reasons, we try to outsource as little as we possibly can.

-Cami


Matt Griffin replies to Cami Townsend's comments on outsourcing:

Cami,

Great answer to the in-house vs. freelance question. We're constantly fighting with management over this issue. Management thinks it can SAVE by outsourcing. What they don't get is that translation requires specialization. It's not like travel or vehicle management, where a clerk books reservations or rentals. Companies like Transperfect that use project managers to shovel translations across their desk without review don't get a second chance with us.

Matt

Marketing your skills

Subscriber K.G. asks about finding work with academic presses and marketing your skills:

I love languages as well and I've done some freelance translating in the past (plus translating specific documents while working as a research analyst). Right now I'm happily working as a research consultant, but I'm still interested in translation. I have a couple of questions.

The first is about finding translating work in academic presses. Does anyone know how academic presses go about deciding which books get translated into another language? Spanish is the language I'm most interested in. For example, when I was in graduate school I noticed that some general courses in Mass Communication were translated into Spanish. Prentice Hall is the publisher that comes to my mind but I'm not 100%. Would you contact Prentice Hall (or the relevant publisher) directly? I remember checking their web site at the time and feeling a bit overwhelmed, not quite knowing what department to contact. If any of you have any insights about how to go about navigating this kind of path, I'd appreciate it.

My second question is--how do you suggest marketing yourself when you have the language skills and the field of specialization, but your actual experience in translation is limited?

My last question is about translating into Spanish specifically. My feeling is that there are so many Spanish speakers in the U.S. that finding translation work Spanish-English or English Spanish could be harder than finding work with other languages. On the other hand, there is probably more work available for Spanish speakers precisely for the same reason. Could the panelists comment on how these forces work together?

Thank you all for such an interesting discussion.

K.G.


Cami Townsend replies to K.G.'s inquiries:

I can't offer any advice about academic presses. Nor do I have the magic formula for how to get translation work when you lack experience. Before approaching companies, however, I would recommend trying to find somebody that already works in your language combination and field as a sort of mentor.  After all, if you have no translation experience, you don't know what kind of documents and what kind of deadlines translators with your specialization face.  Once you see what it is that most of us do everyday, you might think, YUCK, that's not for me.  Or, you may be intrigued and could offer to help your mentor as a sort of foot in the door. To search for practicing translators, use ATA's online services directory or any of the web portals that Mar has been good about mentioning.

Regarding Spanish-English, English-Spanish: My sense is that there is a lot of work in those combinations. However, because there are so many providers (many of whom live outside of the States and can charge cheaper rates), the price pressure is enormous.

-Cami


Melanie Goodman replies to K.G.:

I can not speak to the academic presses question.

To market yourself with little experience, my advice would be to try sending a short sample of work or offer to do something for free (or little compensation) as a test. Also, on your resume, be sure to show why you are probably qualified, even though you don't have the experience.

Yes, there is more work here in Spanish. And, yes, there are many people who claim to be able to translate that language. The key is to be good at it, in my opinion, and contact people (repeatedly, if necessary) to remind them about you.

Melanie


Subscriber Z.M. asks about how to market skills to become a freelancer:

Dear Cami and everyone!

I have been eagerly reading. I am a certified court interpreter and paid my way through grad. school as a full-time court interpreter. I have also taught advanced translation (technical, legal, medical, business). I have directed MAT thesis (literary). I am, as all of you, a victim of this horrible academic market. I finished the PhD in 1992. I have had full time academic jobs but in between them I have had other types of non-academic experiences. Between 1996 and 1998 I worked for Simon and Schuster as a copy editor/translator. I had the grueling, but well-paid, job to edit the Spanish versions, (from the English originals) submitted to us by the translating vendors...not easy...and it is true that there are many people out there who think/claim that they can translate from and into both languages...FAR from the truth/reality! (I happen to be able to do both since I test out native on the ACTFL for both English/Spanish).  All you have to do is ride the subway in the City, go to take a driver's test in Spanish, or read the Spanish (local) Newspapers...the level of proficiency, and quality of writing is rather mediocre...to put it mildly. Well, as a very experienced translator/interpreter, here goes my question: how does one market oneself in order to become a freelance editor/translator for a publishing company?

I remember that while I worked for the publishing company, I envied those folks who didn't have to commute one hour + in NJ/NY traffic, to make as good, if not better money than what I was making doing a more difficult job. I would really like to go freelance, but I'm afraid that I won't know how to market my skills.

thank you so much for a most interesting discussion

best,
Z.M.


Cami Townsend replies to Z.M.:

I can't be of any help regarding your question of how to market to publishing companies, as this is something that I've never done. In fact, after years of translating contracts and financial analysts' reports, I'd probably make one of the worst literary translators out there. Then again, I've translated contracts and financial analysts' reports, so I've seen my fair share of fiction.

I'd like to echo Matt's sentiments and thank the group, as well as my fellow panelists, for a great discussion!

Kind regards,
Cami Townsend


Z.M. clarifies the initial question:

Sorry,
I didn't mean it to read only "literary" translation, any kind of freelance editing or translation in the publishing world...such as text books...there is a GREAT market for that...not very interesting...but...in demand. I edited text books for bilingual education.

best
Z.M.


Subscriber K.G. offers a suggestion to Z.M.:

>Between 1996 and 1998 I worked for Simon and Schuster as a copy editor/translator. I had the grueling, but well-paid, job to edit the Spanish versions, (from the English originals) submitted to us by the translating vendors.<

I imagine that you've already tried this but... Do you have any contacts from your years at Simon and Schuster? I'd think that would be a good place to start, with someone who knew your work.

I also think that it's a job that lends itself to telecommuting (if you can find the right open minded supervisor!).

K.G.


Mar Rodríguez replies to Z.M.:

Hello,

>Between 1996 and 1998 I worked for Simon and Schuster as a copy editor/translator.<

I would think that that job could well become a telecommuting job, if you negotiate it with your employer.

>I had the grueling, but well-paid, job to edit the Spanish versions, (from the English originals) submitted to us by the translating vendors...not easy...and it is true that there are many people out there who think/claim that they can translate from and into both languages...FAR from the truth/reality! (I happen to be able to do both since I test out native on the ACTFL for both English/Spanish).<

Completely agree with you. It is not even translating both ways, but even translating: most people think that all that is involved in translating a text is just knowing the two languages, but...


> Well, as a very experienced translator/interpreter, here goes my question: how does one market oneself in order to become a freelance editor/translator for a publishing company?<

In my case, I worked as a freelance proofreader / assistant editor for HarperCollins when I was in Glasgow. They put an advert for a Spanish lexicographer. Having no idea of what the heck it was, I replied that I would be happy to learn what it was specifically, but that I could proofread and edit in Spanish, and that my Spanish was excellent... They did not take me for that project, but the following year somebody had my data for freelance editing and proofreading... I guess the main thing is get them to know you :-).

I believe there is a magazine for writers in the U.S. (I am sorry I do not remember the name right now, maybe Writers Inc. or something like that...) It is in the public libraries, anyway, and they also have anuaries with publishing companies. This magazine has, at the end, job ads from publishers, and there may be one for you...

It is almost midnight in Spain, so if there are more postings, I will try my best to reply to them tomorrow :-).

I have really enjoyed the whole week and I appreciate everybody's contributions a lot. Thank you very much.

Good luck,

Mar

Subtitling

C.T. asks about getting into movie subtitling:

I am very interested in working as a translator and/or subtitler for film (Spanish to English).  I imagine there is not a huge market for this work, but it's a passion of mine so I'm willing to suffer. :-)  I know that a lot of the companies are based in Europe and Los Angeles and that knowledge of very specialized equipment may be necessary. I was hoping I could start by translating screenplays and then work my way into the actual subtitling process. My Masters is in Mexican Film, so I have some educational background if not professional.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

C.T.

Cami Townsend responds:

Unfortunately, I know nothing about the subtitling industry. Perhaps some of the other panelists or individuals from the membership at large do.

Cami


Subscriber F.L.  replies to C.T.:

Hi, C.T.:

Subtitling is not suffering--it is suffering in style and having a lot of fun (I am saying this in the middle of the suffering part--translating the commentaries for a DVD).

A few remarks to you: first, the translation of a screenplay and the subtitling of the same screenplay are two processes as different as water and oil.  The screenplay translation will provide a good experience in researching idioms and slangs, also in training you to accurately point to what is important in a dialogue and what can be safely abandoned without compromising the plot or the understanding of the movie. Subtitling--as interpreting, for example--requires a special set of skills and a special kind of mind.  You can learn the rules and techniques of subtitling, but a good subtitler is in essence someone who goes to the heart of the matter without wasting a second look on unnecessary words or concepts.  You also have to be able to change styles at will and know really well how create a concise text with some "flavor" that can be understood by the average Joe.

The USA market for Spanish into English subtitling is not broad but is very competitive. Depending on the client, you may or may not need the software (Softni is the most used); or sometimes they will provide a copy of the software to be installed in your computer.  One of my clients simply converts the translation in Word format to the system he uses. You will find a variety of processes in terms of project management: movies in VHS, movies in CD, delivery in Word format, delivery through FTP, in-house work even for freelancers, etc...

I'd recommend that you start contacting companies in Mexico and Spain and offering to show a sample of your work or taking their test.  I'd also recommend a class in subtitling or audiovisual translation; if I am not mistaken, one is offered as summer class at Ohio University.  There are a few books and some articles you can find on the web. Another important subject is timecode, essential for spotting the movie and for understanding the technical process of inserting subtitles onto a movie.  Technical bookstores will have a variety of books in timecode; but choose first a simple manual in video otherwise you will be overwhelmed (The Little Digital Video Book is as basic as possible, cheap and may be a good starting point--only a few about timecode).

The downside points are.... the volume of work fluctuates wildly; few clients pay really well; and you need to have the broadest knowledge base ever. A subtitling translator has to deal with all sorts of subjects; from submarines to fashion, from American regionalisms to calculus; from Wall Street to slums; slangs, slangs, slangs, slangs--nothing is beyond the scope of a subtitling project. Instead of having two or three dictionaries about one subject matter, you will need access to a throve of dictionaries and reference books (last count, I was getting close to 200). Of course, I am a pack rat and will buy any reference book or dictionary under the pretense that one day it will be useful--but they generally are. Even some books I bought for "personal consumption" ended up being used as reference materials (an encyclopedia of comic books helped me with Daredevil bonus material; a dictionary of swear words helped with the dialogue in Blaze; etc). The worst part is when you find the perfect slang or idiom or terminology and have to abandon it because it will not fit the subtitle window and the term is not that important for the plot development :-)

Good luck in your career!

F.L.


Subscriber L.R. asks a question:

I find this advice on working in subtitling intriguing. I am curious to know if anyone has any information on subtitling into English from other languages, namely French and Russian.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

Cheers,

L.R.


Mar Rodríguez replies to L.R.:

Hello,

> I am very interested in working as a translator and/or subtitler for film (Spanish to English). I imagine there is not a huge market for this work, but it's a passion of mine so I'm willing to suffer. :-) I know that a lot of the companies are based in Europe and Los Angeles and that knowledge of very specialized equipment may be necessary. I was hoping I could start by translating screenplays and then work my way into the actual subtitling process. My Masters is in Mexican Film so I have some educational background if not professional.<

There are usually two steps when you translate something for subtitling: first, the translator does the translating part, and then their is the "ajustador" (adjuster ø?) who makes what the translator has written fit into the particular space allowed for the words.

Sometimes, of course, the translator does both.

My best idea at the moment (I have just come back from swimming and I am not quite too academical yet), is to try and contact producers, media companies, etc. and try to translate stuff for them, and make the necessary contacts so that you can do a sort of training with them or something like that, which will allow you to continue to do the whole thing, etc.

Good luck,

Mar


Subscriber F.L. replies to L.R.:
L.R.:

Studios are the best clients for into English subtitling.  You can contact all the major studios (check their distribution department) and offer your services. They need subtitles for theatrical releases, while subtitling companies are mostly preparing it for DVD and video releases. The volume of work is directly related to the popularity of such movie industries--that is, you'd have more work from French.

Why did you think the commentary intriguing?

Cheers,

F.L.


Subscriber L.R. answers F.L.:

Thank you for the advice. I found the discussion intriguing simply because I avoid doing translation because it pays so poorly and is usually so gruelingly uninteresting. Translating foreign films, on the other hand, seems like it could be fun.

Best,

L.R.


Mar Rodríguez comments on L.R.'s perception of translating as poorly paid and boring:

Dear L.R.,

Ah! I find translating extremely interesting most of the time, and it pays well (as far as I can judge). About films, I should say that some may be interesting, some may not be so.  One other thing I would like to point out is that audiovisual translation is not only translating films, but also company videos, documentaries, training materials, etc.

Good luck,

Mar


Subscriber F.L. adds:

L.R.:

As you narrow your fields and get specialized, projects become more interesting. Audiovisual always has this glamorous aura, until you get to translate your first DVD commentary with inane declarations of how everybody was so marvelous and all the patting on the back (check the Shrek commentaries and see what I am talking about). Yuck!  You don't get to pick and choose which movies you'll translate, and you don't really have time to enjoy the process because the deadline is a monster breathing on your neck.

On the other hand, I had a lot fun doing software testing, translating industrial equipment, waging a battle with an automobile insurance text that was badly written, and I love medical related projects.  This is the best part of translation: you never know what is going to land on your desk, what you are going to learn from a new translation, or where your research for a specific subject may lead you. And I can read all day long and justify as "research"--what a blast!!!

True, I could probably make more money as a video editor or computer graphic artist. I have tried both careers, but what really kept me in translation was the unexpected aspect of the translations. And I still get to collaborate on video editing and computer graphics projects. But if I really wanted to make tons of money, I would have studied Medicine or Law and would be bored for life.

Cheers,

F.L.


Matt Griffin weighs in about subtitling as a career:

A friend in Brooklyn once made a short film and asked me for the German subtitles--I think he was submitting it to festivals abroad. I remember having fun fielding his anxious question whether he had to change a line, since there are no raccoons in Europe.

Honestly, this is good anecdotal fodder, but I can't see making a career out of something like Spanish subtitles. Of course, you could check the Almodovar credits...

Academics are stuck believing they have to make an occupation out of their predilections. The work pays so poorly, students have no alternative but to identify with the higher principles of their profession. But it's not realistic to identify so completely with your work. Unless you're wealthy, you need a job--to pay the bills as well as to care for the future. By the time most of us are through with graduate school, we've spent years neglecting our finances. Be realistic, find a job to earn money, AND translate the subtitles to the next Almodovar!!

Matt


Mar Rodríguez responds to Matt's query:

Hello,

>but I can't see making a career out of something like Spanish subtitles. Of course, you could check the Almodovar credits...<

I know there are lots of good audiovisual translators who actually earn their living working full time as such, and one or two who can actually take 3-whole-month holidays every year :-).

It is all a question of trying hard, needing it, being lucky and persistent, and knowing what you are doing, of course.

Good luck,

Mar


Matt Griffin responds to Mar, asking for tips on finding leads for work as an audiovisual translator:

Mar wrote: "It is all a question of trying hard, needing it, being lucky and persistent, and knowing what you are doing, of course."

Thanks for the note. It would be nice if you could share HOW to go about finding work as an audiovisual translator. I mean, I've translated TV interviews for Discovery channel, too. But three month holidays... Who are you kidding?

It's a bit frustrating--too much of this discussion is taking place in vague terms. I'm all for protecting my leads, but would you mind speaking more to the point.

Matt


Mar Rodríguez answers Matt Griffin:

Hello, again,

>> Mar wrote: "It is all a question of trying hard, needing it, being lucky and persistent, and knowing what you are doing, of course."<<
>
> Thanks for the note. It would be nice if you could share HOW to go about finding work as an audiovisual translator. I mean, I've translated TV interviews for Discovery channel, too. But three month holidays... Who are you kidding?<

No kidding :-)! Just ask Xosè Castro (webpage: www.xcastro.com , I think). He is one of the most famous audiovisual translators in Spain, and the 3-month holidays are his own words (he gave a talk at one of the translators' associations over here, TRIAC, in Barcelona).

> It's a bit frustrating - too much of this discussion is taking place in vague terms. I'm all for protecting my leads, but would you mind speaking more to the point.<

I have not been more specific about audiovisual work, because, as I said, I am still doing the postgraduate course (up to now, I have mainly been translating medical, some very general legal, automotive, some basic technical manuals and business texts--including brochures, company newsletters, etc.), but, as soon as I get to know specifically, I will let you know (if you are still interested).

I do not know if my message about finding work reached the list properly, but there were specifics there (if you haven't got it, just let me know, I will resend it to you).

Thank you,

Mar


F.L. adds another voice to the discussion of finding leads:

Matt:

In entertainment, if you are lucky you will have three-month periods when NOTHING happens. With the state of the economy, this can go up to six months :-)

As for leads, I am sorry, but part of the professional attitude is to find your own leads and go for it. I can give you my list of clients, but I assure you they most probably would not become your clients. Why? Because you have not created a relationship with them. I divide the work I receive into two categories: 1) coming from "clients" (the ones I know will always come back); 2) and coming from "singles" (companies, agencies or individuals that hire you once but will most probably forget you next week). Each client has a different process and a different structure, one that sometimes you will not find comfortable or will not agree with your professional style and needs.

I can tell you one thing: it is easy to identify prospective clients and find the information on your own. It requires time, but it will also help you define your professional goals. Additionally, your networking connections will be the BEST source of new clients. When a professional they value and trust refers your name, the client will trust you much more than if your resume had arrived unsolicited by email.

Another thing: my best client may be your worst nightmare. In one of the messages, somebody recommended ProZ--and I only had the worst experiences there.

Best of luck,

F.L.


Mar adds:

Hello,

I agree with F.L. about clients :-).

> Another thing: my best client may be your worst nightmare. In one of the messages, somebody recommended ProZ--and I only had the worst experiences there.<

I did talk about ProZ as a possible source of jobs, of course, not the only one. As with all other Internet opportunities, you must be careful: I always check out the Blue Board to see what comments other translators have made about the company, check their website, etc. etc. Of course, when offers come that are too low (and there are plenty of those), I just disregard them; however, I have found some jobs worth taking and promptly paid, etc.

Good luck,

Mar


Court Interpreting

Subscriber L.R. asks for tips on finding work as a court interpreter:

Dear Z.M.,

I'm interested to know how one searches for work in court interpretation.  Could you make any suggestions?

Thank you.

L.R.


Z.M. provides some information on finding work as a court interpreter:

The Federal Government has an examination for Federal Court Interpreting.  You can put your name on waiting lists at every court house near your residence, or find out what the requirements are for state licensing. As anything else, it's a question of networking with people involved in the interpreting world. I started part-time in Federal Court. Part time was an easy $150 for a couple of hours. For a grad student, it was great! Then, I got a job as the official court interpreter for Juvenile Court and that was a super job! I wish I had kept it!

regards,
Z.M.


Latin and Ancient Greek

Subscriber B.C. asks about translation jobs from Latin and ancient Greek:

Would our excellent speakers care to share their thoughts on jobs in translation for those of us whose languages include Latin and ancient Greek?


Cami Townsend replies to B.C. about Latin and ancient Greek:

The only Latin we ever do is the occasional diploma that an attorney needs for a client's immigration file. Ancient Greek isn't something we ever see. For the most part, translation agencies are working on documents that clients have an immediate business-related need for. So if you take a look at the companies and industries that are driving the world's economy, you'll have a good sense of the languages that most corporate translation work falls under.

-Cami


Melanie Goodman adds:

The only thing I can say is that the requests are few and far between, but they do come up, and it is good to know where we can find you.

Melanie


Mar Rodríguez asks B.C. for clarification:

Do you have a more specific question, please?

Mar

B.C. clarifies the initial question:

On Latin and Greek:

Mar, thanks for answering. Everyone with Latin and Greek skills (and I'm not the only one on this list) knows that there's almost no demand for them in the business world. But, from your perspective, are there other non-academic areas that we in the academic world should know about? Updated translations of classical literature appear all the time, of course, but what else is there besides teaching and literature? (I've done a few renovations of 19th-century American inscriptions, but it's not exactly a career.)

Thanks,

B.C.


Mar Rodríguez replies:

Hello, B.C.,

> Mar, thanks for answering. Everyone with Latin and Greek skills (and I'm not the only one on this list) knows that there's almost no demand for them in the business world. But, from your perspective, are there other non-academic areas that we in the academic world should know about?<

Uff! The only things that come to mind are things that may come and go, such as consultant for movies / documentaries on the subject, or motto-writer for institutions. Having said that, I would emphasize the ample scope of knowledge those two languages can provide and the different points of view that you have won with them, and then that would be applicable to publicity (for example, creating advert campaigns for different products); of course, if you were in the countries themselves, Greece and Italy (together with most parts of southern Europe), you could think of a tourist guide career, providing the opportunity of going to places and actually explaining why they were important in ancient times, what happened there, and giving them a couple of historic phrases.

> Updated translations of classical literature appear all the time, of course, but what else is there besides teaching and literature? (I've done a few renovations of 19th-century American inscriptions, but it's not exactly a career.)<

As you see, my ideas are not too many right now (I have just woken up from a siesta, I have been working too long this week). I can continue thinking, if you think they are useful, and let you know more (if I come up with them).

Thank you,

Mar

Back to Top

Literary Translation

Leeway

Subscriber B.J. asks about leeway in literary translation:

Cami said [in response to the question about native languages and translation], "In most cases, it wasn't that the translators misunderstood the source text; it  was they didn't know how to write good English. In other words, the translation read like a translation."

This brings to my question. When you do a literary translation, how much leeway do you have? I mean, you are after all re-writing someone else's work in a different language. My feeling is you should express the author's style as well as intent. Mine is from Russian into English. Russian authors tend to write mile-long sentences with punctuation marks all over the place. Can I just partition a sentence into five to make it more readable in English? Do I just drop all punctuations to fit the target language? How do I make a translation not read like a translation and still retain the original author's presence?

Another thing, I am a stickler for details. I research every reference, place names, ..., till I feel sure I am on solid ground before I attempt to translate them into the English equivalent. Times I feel that I should transliterate terms in the text and explain them in footnotes instead of replacing them with English approximates. In a work of fiction, is that even necessary? Do the readers/publishers even care?

B.J.


Cami Townsend replies to B.J.:

I have no experience in literary translation, so my comments will be limited. However, some of the issues you face are ones that "technical" (i.e., non-literary) translators face, as well.

The first question you should ask yourself is this: What function will my translation serve?

If, for example, I am translating a contract that contains provisions about duties that a party has under German law, but such duties don't exist under U.S. law, sometimes I will use the German term, at least when it first appears, and explain in brackets or a footnote just what the term signifies. After all, the party is going to be doing business in Germany and may need to ask somebody who knows nothing about my translation for help. In other words, using just the word or phrase I coined would get them nowhere.

However, footnotes and added explanations can be cumbersome if the reader is looking for a nice story to read or expecting a catchy ad or quick-read newspaper clipping.

Talk to your client about what his or her expectations are. When a publishing company asks for a translation to be done, I can imagine that they have very specific demands that they are looking to have met: i.e., do they want something that sticks closely to the original or something that adapts to the story to a new audience?

-Cami


Matt Griffin joins the discussion about literary translation:

Literary translation: Back when I had a CV, page two listed my published translations of literary texts and criticism. Here was the proof, I thought, of my dedication to German literature. In addition to the work of contemporary authors, I had translated essays by scholars practicing in the field. Of course, this kind of work is viewed differently by the academy. Had I studied theories of translation? I was asked during job interviews. Could I teach a class on translation?
This is intended a bit as a cautionary tale about disciplining your interests. But it's also a lead-in to my response to questions about literary translation. What I'm going to say applies to all manners of translation, from literary to technical, WORK WITH THE AUTHOR. Working with the author of the text you are translating is important. I do it in my job, confirming usage and clarifying ambiguities with the customers. And, as long as the author is living, it's a great way to  get to know other writers.

A few months ago I heard Michael Hulse speak about translating W.G. Sebald. (Hulse translated The Emigrants and the two subsequent novels published by New Directions.) Hulse described his approach to a passage in The Rings of Saturn that Sebald had based on Joseph Conrad's Congo diary. Sebald had basically translated Conrad into German, stated Hulse, who felt he had to distance his English translation from the German to avoid plagiarizing Conrad. When, however, Hulse presented his translation to the author, Sebald revised the English by choosing terms that brought it much closer to Conrad's origin al. Ironically, Sebald had changed the translation to match the "original," itself a translation. This is a rare example of an author who is truly bilingual and it gets at the heart of what makes for a great translation.

Matt


Subscriber S.B., a literary translator, weighs in:

B.J.,

I'm not one of the guest speakers, but I'd like to respond to your questions about literary translation. (I have my MFA in Literary Translation from the University of Arkansas and have been translating contemporary German literature since 1996.)

You asked, "When you do a literary translation, how much leeway do you have? I mean, you are after all re-writing someone else's work in a different language. My feeling is you should express the author's style as well as intent."

Translators have discussed/argued about this for many years. Personally, I believe that style is as important as literal meaning.  In my own work as a literary translator (German to English), I do my best to recreate both the meaning and the style to try to create for the English readers a feeling as close as possible to the feeling (as best I understand it) that the original had for German readers. I translate contemporary German fiction. When you're dealing with literature from another time period or poetry, you have other concerns to think about like to what extent do you want to try to recreate a sense of time or how important is rhyme or rhythm. 

John Biguenet and Rainer Schulte have edited a couple of good (but not too overwhelming) anthologies, one a collection of essays by translators talking about how they actually did the work of translating a particular text and one about theories of translation: 

Biguenet, John and Rainer Schulte, eds.  The Craft of Translation. 1989. (I think this is Univ. of Chicago too, but am not sure.)
Schulte, Rainer and John Biguenet, eds.  Theories of Translation.  Chicago: Univ. of Chicago Press, 1992.

(I could recommend other books about this sort of thing if people are interested.)

You asked, "Russian authors tend to write mile-long sentences with punctuation marks all over the place. Can I just partition a sentence into five to make it more readable in English? Do I just drop all punctuations to fit the target language? How do I make a translation not read like a translation and still retain the original author's presence?"

A question to ask here would be how important are the mile-long sentences in the work? Is it clearly part of the author's style?  English can handle long sentences, but you have to be careful.  If I were doing this kind of a translation, I would probably try to keep as many of the long sentences as I could.  Perhaps they won't all be able to be as long as in Russian. For instance, German tends to require many more relative clauses than English does.  For example:

"Der Mann, der mit dem blauen Fahrrad faehrt, heisst Werner."
Literally:   "The man, who is riding the blue bike, is called Werner."
The way most people (I think) would say this in English: "The man riding the blue bike is Werner."     Or maybe "Werner is the man riding the blue bike."

Personally, I try to make a work as beautiful in English as it was in German, so one of the main rules I follow is what is the most natural way to say this in English. With that said I do occasionally try to give the English reader a 'feel' for the German, but I think a little goes a long way in this regard too much of this and the translation will tend to read/sound like a translation; place names I tend to leave in German unless they have a different name in English (i.e. Bodensee is Lake Constance). This point ties into what Cami said about asking yourself what function the translation will serve and what a publisher might want. My guess would be to sell books to readers of English.

Footnotes: I do my absolute best to avoid these at all costs because I want the English reader to read the story/poem/novel/play not to get bogged down in footnotes.  (Vladimir Nabokov completely disagrees with me on this.) Therefore, I may have to add a small explanatory phrase in the text or use the German word and make it clear from context (as Cami mentioned).  Otherwise I might write a short "translator's note" or "introduction" if it were for a book manuscript. 

Matt's point about working with the author--By all means contact the author if she or he is still living to let them know you think their work important enough to bring into English. I think that working with the author works best if she or he has an excellent command of English and/or has read a lot of English literature and is willing to work with you.  One of the authors I have translated expressly told me that she didn't want to "help" me with my translation because she doesn't believe it's the author's job to tell readers what her work "means." Neither did she feel her English was good enough to be of much help anyway. She did, however, want to see the completed work.  To read about some other translators' experiences with working with authors, you may want to check out the Nov/Dec 2002 issue of Poets & Writers

These are the kinds of things that articles in Translation Review (journal published by the American Literary Translators Association [ALTA]) and ALTA Conference presentations and workshops tackle.  For more information about ALTA check out http://www.literarytranslators.org/ . This year's conference will be November 12-15, 2003, at the Hyatt Cambridge Hotel, in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Sorry to be so long-winded.

Best!
S.B.

Mar Rodríguez responds to B.J's question:

Cami said:
>In most cases, it wasn't that the translators misunderstood the source text; it was they didn't know how to write good English. In other words, the translation read like a translation.<

Ah! But that is a problem with translations done both by natives and non-natives. Usually after the first draft, you should go back and read the text, because once you have been translating for some time, it is best to take a break and go back to checking it a bit: sometimes some expressions may appear that sound "like a translation".

B.J. asked:
>This brings to my question. When you do a literary translation, how much leeway do you have?<

I do not usually do literary translation, but, from what I have heard, it depends very much on the type of agreement you have with the publisher, what type of relationship you have with the author... whether you are an established literary translator... My feeling is you should express the author's style as well as intent.

I agree. One should try to do that and also to produce the same reaction/feeling, etc. in the reader of the translation as the reader of the original gets (sort of).

>Can I just partition a sentence into five to make it more readable in English?<

I think it would depend on whether the length of the sentence actually expresses something in the text, or whether usually it can be split; I mean, if the author is trying to express a very long, boring evening he spent with his father-in-law, that has to be there in the translation, otherwise... feel free.

>Do I just drop all punctuations to fit the target language? How do I make a translation not read like a translation and still retain the original author's presence?<

The presence of the author is also in the characters, the setting, the idea, ...

> Another thing, I am a stickler for details. I research every references, place names, ..., till I feel sure I am on solid ground before I attempt to translate them into the English equivalent. Times I feel that I should transliterate terms in the text and explain them in footnotes instead of replacing them with English approximates. In a work of fiction, is that even necessary? Do the readers/publishers even care?<

Again, it depends on the situation. Think about the people who are going to read the book and then take decisions; think about whether it is an authoritative edition for researchers, whether those names have any special meaning or role in the text... If I take a text to read for a literature course, I make sure it has lots of footnotes, explaining as much as possible about doubtful points, with lots of explanations; also, if I like a particular author or a particular work and I really want to know what is going on, I enjoy footnotes. Otherwise, I would rather have the clean text, and maybe the collection of notes at the end, so that they do not interrupt the fluidity of reading...

That's my two cents :-).

Good luck,

Mar


Finding Work

Subscriber S.B. asks J.A. about translating a novel under contract:

In her message asking how to find work J.A. wrote:
>I worked pretty frequently as a translator and interpreter before graduate school--but abroad. Since then, I've done some project work and some literary translation, and currently am translating a novel under contract.<

J.A.,

I was wondering if you could share how you have gotten work in the past at home and abroad and in particular how you came to translate a novel under contract?

Thanks!
S.B.


J.A. answers:

Hi, I was gone on Friday, I know the discussion was over but I wanted to follow up. Since I work a lot in Czech, and lived in Prague, finding work was never a problem, and things tend to come up just because the population of native English speakers who can translate from Czech is not overwhelmingly large. But such things have never come up with any regularity, hence my question.

As for literary translation, again, it being Czech, I just contacted the publisher, because the pool of people wanting to translate difficult texts in a difficult language essentially for love is not so big, and the novel in question is out of copyright.

But for wanting to build up translation credits, there are many literary magazines that publish short translations of even quite old things. And if you pick a text that's out of copyright, there's no problem with legality. I'd suggest doing small projects like that and getting a few credits. For working on the living, it's also not a bad idea to approach an author you really like (who isn't already widely translated) with your interest.


Cheers,

J.A.



Subscriber S.B. shares some information about finding work for literary translation:

C.S. asked, "How does one go about researching and/or finding translation opportunities (literary and technical)?"

We've gotten some excellent information about how to go about finding non-literary translation. Thanks to everyone who has shared.

I thought I might share my as-of-yet limited experience with researching literary translation opportunities. I can only speak to German--English, but perhaps there are similar venues/organizations for other languages.  For German there are three organizations that each publish a list of contemporary literature they feel might appeal to an English-reading audience:

The Goethe Institute in New York has a "Showcase of New Books" section on their website. This webpage is not just for translators but rather for people who are interested in keeping up with what's new in German books and includes fiction and nonfiction.
www.goethe.de/uk/ney/showcase/index.htm

The German Book Office in New York has a "rights list" (referring to foreign rights--part of the copyright issue with literary translation) that is pretty helpful because it includes the name of the person to contact about securing copyright permission and indicates which foreign rights have already been sold and to which publisher. The GBO includes fiction and nonfiction and has just added a children's literature section.
www.buchmesse.de/gbo/gbo-e/rightslist-e/01901/frames.html
The GBO also maintains a database of translators to share with publishers looking for a translator. More details about the database are at the "Services" part of their "About Us" page.

New Books in German is a UK publication (paper and electronic) that presents regular reviews of new books that they recommend for translation into English.
www.new-books-in-german.com/

One resource to contact with this kind of question might be ALTA or the Literary Division of the ATA. Another resource would be other professional organizations like your language group branch of the MLA. What books are people talking about? Do they have a listserv where you can post a question or a request for reading/translating recommendations? Perhaps even your language group branch of ACTFL (American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages), although here you would most likely have to ask for individual recommendations since the organization's focus is on teaching. Or perhaps the cultural wing of the embassy or consulate might have some ideas?

My sense is that translators will have to establish their credentials before a publisher will approach them with a translation project. As far as I know, the main way to establish credentials as a literary translator is to get translations published in magazines / literary journals and maybe a book.

Good luck!

S.B.


Mar Rodríguez adds a thought on finding literary translation work:

Hello,

> My sense is that translators will have to establish their credentials before a publisher will approach them with a translation project. As far as I know, the main way to establish credentials as a literary translator is to get translations published in magazines / literary journals and maybe a book.<

I completely agree. A way that could be useful is to see what publishers are publishing books that you want to translate and have the ability to translate, and approach them with a project. They might be interested, although this is a loooooong way :-).

Good luck,

Mar

Back to Top

Native Languages

In translating

Subscriber C.T. asks speakers about translating from their native languages:

I was wondering what the panelists' opinions are on translating into a language other than your native tongue. I have worked as a freelance Spanish to English translator but also have been asked to translate English into Spanish. While I feel that I am quite fluent in Spanish, I recognize that I do not have native fluency so I choose only to translate into English. 

How do you handle this?  What is the standard in the industry? I imagine it varies by specialty as well; native fluency probably isn't as important in a medical transcript as in a literary work. 

Thanks for your input!

C.T.

Cami Townsend replies to C.T.:

The standard in the industry is to translate into your native language only. Clearly this doesn't mean that people don't translate into their source language. When I was freelancing, I myself was asked to fix a fair number of translations that had gone severely awry because they were done into English by native speakers of German. In most cases, it wasn't that the translators misunderstood the source text; it was they didn't know how to write good English. In other words, the translation read like a translation.

I would disagree that native fluency isn't as important in a medical transcript as in a literary work. It's important across the board if a translation is intended for anything more than informational purposes: i.e., it's for publication, it will be used to negotiate a deal, it will help investors decide if they want to buy into a particular company, it will help a doctor in a foreign country serve the needs of a patient.

Of course, I don't mean to imply that translation is a one-way street where only native speakers of the target language translate and edit the work. Every day, I see instances where it helps to have a native speaker of the source text involved in the process to explain what the source text is saying in-between the lines. For that matter, sometimes it helps to have somebody who can better explain what the lines themselves say. Given the speed with which business happens these days, many of the source texts we receive are replete with errors and awkward language, and the people translating them need guidance.

-Cami


Matt Griffin replies to C.T.:

When I interviewed at my present job, my boss, who is German but has lived here twenty-five years, told me she believed translators should translate strictly into their native language. A few weeks into work, I made the mistake of "improving" her English. Ach! It was an unpleasant shock to learn that she preferred to translate into English, and rarely went the other way. Living abroad, you lose your native language proficiency. I see it in texts written by supposed native English speakers. S/he has lost it, we say.

I've translated into German, but I couldn't have done it without Instant Messaging. As a bilingual online editor at a Web provider, I had to translate help and support pages. IM'g a few lines of my translations to my wife, who is German, worked all right. Aside from that, writing e-mails to customers keeps me in practice. And if I had time at my job, I'd like to start translating into German (without AIM).

Matt


Mar Rodríguez comments on native speakers "losing" their native language:

Ah!

>my boss, who is German but has lived here twenty-five years,...she preferred to translate into English, and rarely went the other way. Living abroad, you lose your native language proficiency. I see it in texts written by supposed native English speakers. S/he has lost it, we say.<

That is generally true, as far as spoken language is concerned. However, coming home once a year for a month or so should be enough to keep your native language. Of course, while away from your home, you should keep some time of linguistic contact, although it takes time.

Good luck,

Mar


Melanie Goodman responds to C.T.:

As a general rule, we also have most translations done by a native speaker.  And we often have their work looked over by a native of the source language to make sure the translator understood the original.  But it really depends on the translator and their experience and how they keep up the language.  I appreciate your honesty in only choosing to translate into the language you feel qualified to do. I wish more translators would do that. Unfortunately, some claim to be able to go both ways, and sometimes you don't find out the contrary until the editor complains.

Melanie


Mar Rodríguez responds to C.T.:

Well, I do translate both from and into English, although it is not my native language.  However, I have really definite limitations for it: I can translate general texts, but I would never dare translate a literary work into that language. I also have my husband check my almost-final translation, because he is a native English speaker, so that solves the finer points.

Usually, the most advisable thing to do is to translate into one's own native language, mainly because of speed and ease: it is faster and easier for me to translate into Spanish than into English, so, moneywise, translating into English makes a bit less sense.

Regards,

Mar


Varieties of Native Languages

Subscriber I.K. asks what to do about varieties of English:

I'm hoping my question and comments dovetail nicely into one of the current threads of the native tongue discussion... I'm wondering how those of you translating into English have dealt with the differences in different varieties of English, such as American vs. British (or Canadian, Australian, etc.) standards. As an Australian studying in the U.S., I've had my own "battle" learning an alternate form of my native tongue, but I've also found this issue comes up in the bits and pieces of translation into English that I've done as well. I've translated short articles from German, Norwegian, and Danish into English and have edited non-native speakers' own translations of their work into English. Most of this work has been in the natural or social sciences (which are not my own fields of study).

Just as I've had difficulties in learning "American," non-native users of English outside English-speaking countries also seem to have problems working with the differences between variants of English. Some of the non-English to English dictionaries I've used don't distinguish between English varieties, and many of the non-native speakers I've worked with are not aware of many of the differences.

I've also noticed the effects of changes in the way English is being taught and learned (learnt :) ) in different countries. Different generations of language learners seem to have different attitudes to what type of English I use as a standard in translation and editing. Whereas a British standard once prevailed in Scandinavia, there's now an increasing, but by no means universal, tendency to use American forms--even if people are not always aware of the fine differences between each type, or even which variety they're using. No doubt it's easy to explain some of the confusion between English varieties in terms of the globalization of media, music, etc. Nevertheless, regional differences in English still persist, at least in their native environment--and even if each regional variety is itself also evolving. In working with English, I feel I should use one or the other standard as consistently as possible AND be able to explain each standard variety. I enjoy working with different Englishes, but I'd love to find better ways to account for these differences on a broad scale to the people I'm working with. It would be great to hear others' thoughts about this.

It would also be very interesting to learn about the difficulties (and pleasures!) those of you working with other languages that have different regional standard varieties have experienced.

On a final and perhaps more selfish note, I also have a rather lazy question! Since moving to the U.S., I've always wondered if there is a dictionary of sorts that lists the differences between American and non-American (Canadian, British, whatever) Englishes--inasmuch as there are clearly marked boundaries between them. Flipping back and forth between Webster's and the OED is one thing, but it would be great if there were an option involving less book shuffling and less page turning!

Looking forward to more great discussion about translation!

-I.K.


Cami Townsend replies to I.K.:

The issue of which variety of English to use certainly comes up. For our company, whose clients are mostly in the U.S. and Europe, the problem is mostly British English vs. American English. For the most part, we work into American English, even for our European clients. This works for a number of different reasons that might be specific to our firm: (1) many of the parties who come to us for convenience translations into English of the documentation involved in their overseas transactions are American companies or (2) they're foreign companies looking to do or already doing business in the U.S. If a client asks us to use British spelling, we will oblige. However, we do so on the understanding that our ability to localize into British English is limited to spelling and that a review of the translation for uniquely American phrases and idioms that would then also need to be localized would cost more money.

Sometimes the target audience of our translations includes non-native speakers of English, in which case we avoid using turns of phrase that might be difficult for non-native speakers to understand.

As some of my previous messages have implied, issues like these are often decided on a per-project basis.

Unfortunately, I am not aware of any dictionaries of the type you inquired about: i.e., ones that offer a comparison of the varieties of English. I would be very interested in knowing if anybody else on the list knows a good resource in that regard.

-Cami


Melanie Goodman responds to I.K.:

We provide American English unless our customers specifically request British (or other) English, which does come up from time to time.

Melanie


Subscriber F.L. provides resources for comparing varieties of English:

Dear Cami:

Here are some sources regarding British vs. American:
http://www.uta.fi/FAST/US1/REF/usgbglos.html
http://www.peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/dictionary/
http://www.effingpot.com/
http://people.cornell.edu/pages/jjh26/ (a compilation)

You can also find a huge list at amazon.com. Just type "dictionary british american" and browse the results. A trick I use is to have both the British and the American English dictionaries installed on my spellchecker. I alternate according to the target audience. But just the dictionaries are not enough. I use a British or American editor to make sure the style is also adequate.

Cheers,

F.L.


Mar Rodríguez responds to I.K.:

The question of the varieties of a language is difficult: I find that I can only translate into European Spanish or a "not-too-varietal" type of Spanish that may be understood by most. The same, more or less, happens with English: the more academic it is, the more uniform, and therefore, more widely understood (in general); the more spoken it is, the less uniformity it offers, and, therefore, it is more specific...

> I've also noticed the effects of changes in the way English is being taught and learned (learnt :) ) in different countries. Different generations of language learners seem to have different attitudes to what type of English I use as a standard in translation and editing. Whereas a British standard once prevailed in Scandinavia, there's now an increasing, but by no means universal, tendency to use American forms--even if people are not always aware of the fine differences between each type, or even which variety they're using.<

You are right here too :-): we used to study RP English in Spain long time ago, with middle-upper class British English preferred, whereas after that there was a period when American English was the most chosen option. Now I think as long as you are a native, they do not really care :-).

>In working with English, I feel I should use one or the other standard as consistently as possible AND be able to explain each standard variety. I enjoy working with different Englishes, but I'd love to find better ways to account for these differences on a broad scale to the people I'm working with. It would be great to hear others' thoughts about this.<

Definitely, you should keep consistency through a text, especially the spelling: programme/program, centre/center, realise/realize... (although I quite like the "z" in AmEnglish and the "re" ending in the British variety).


>It would also be very interesting to learn about the difficulties (and pleasures!) those of you working with other languages that have different regional standard varieties have experienced.<

As far as Spanish is concerned, as I have said before, it is the same case, due to the extension of Spanish in the world. It is a good exercise to just check and see how a Spanish word is said in the different Spanish-speaking countries :-).

Good luck,

Mar

Languages and rapid social change

D.L. asks about how to keep up with new vocabulary and technology:

My question has to do with what translators do when a language grows very rapidly due to equally rapid social transformation. This is the general statement of the problem that may relate to many folks in many language specializations--due to scientific or legal change.

My language is Chinese. It has an ideographic basis and is now being rapidly transformed as it adopts new language from WTO acceptance, the development of the rule of law, as well as involving itself in the technology arena.

Where does one go to find "new words and terminology?" Words that are too new to be in a dictionary? To find specialized language.

I have had classical Chinese training (like Latin--and a specialized intellectual language that persisted until the turn of the twentieth century). And I have general language skills that permit me to read a newspaper or a professional journal in my field in social science.

But those involved in my field were retirement age when I was in grad school, and so I hand-wrote all my Chinese into my dissertation, as they had done. I know that computerized Chinese word programs exist. Where does one get authoritative answers to what's best and how they interact with word processing programs and PC vs MAC issues?

Enough for now. If it's too specialized a set of questions, how does one go about finding answers to them?

D.L.




Subscriber W.I. responds to D.L.'s question:

D.L.,

In response to China's entry into the WTO, mainland Chinese publishers have recently compiled, rather methodically, various English-Chinese trade/specialty dictionaries for information technology, finance, law, and medicine.  Amazingly up-to-date and user-friendly, they are hot items in China as well as here in metropolitan areas such as LA, SF, and NY. Even if you don't have access to Chinese-language bookstores in these areas, you could order them online from Hong Kong's Commercial Press

http://www.hkcp.com/ww/index.html

As for which Chinese-language word program software is "best", I think it all comes down to individual user preferences. If you ask me, I'd recommend Twinbridge. You can go to their website to check on compatibility issues.
http://www.twinbridge.com

Good luck,
W.I.

D.L. replies:

W.I.,

Thanks so much for providing such helpful information about China's rapidly changing language landscape and how to keep up with it.
D.L.


Cami Townsend replies to D.L.'s initial question:

It's an interesting set of questions you pose: both at the level of content (where do you find new terminology?) and logistics (how do translators working into languages with different character sets, etc. work with the requesters and users of translation?). My company does very little work into Asian languages, so my experience with them is minimal. However, Windows 2000, for example, automatically comes with the features that enable me to look at Asian-language text; one just has to know how to turn those features on and might need to find the Windows 2000 CD that came with the computer. The same holds true for XP, I believe.

In terms of producing texts in Asian languages, my understanding from our independent contractors is that having the appropriate Asian-language operating system is a must.

Regarding terminology, all of the resources that Mar described would be invaluable: get to know others working in the profession by attending local gatherings and joining on-line discussion groups. Search out translators who work in the subject areas you're interested in.

I'm sorry I can't offer anything more specific, but I can perhaps offer these words of comfort. Even words and concepts that have existed for decades and centuries in languages less exposed to the types of changes that Chinese is undergoing are not always to be found in bilingual dictionaries and, even when they are, it doesn't mean that you can trust the entry. Sometimes entries are flat-out wrong and sometimes the equivalents offered need to be tweaked in order to fit into the context of the text you're working on.

-Cami


Subscriber F.L. chimes in too about talking with field-specific professionals to keep up on new lingo:

Another two cents :-)

I consider professionals in the subject area to be a valuable and trustworthy source for terminology. I made contacts in the oil industry and paper industry to obtain help for specific projects, and I still maintain contact with old friends: journalists, public relations, IT people, physicians, dentists, chemical engineers, etc. so I can always call them up and have any terminology-related questions answered. For example, for a recent project in tourism and travel, I couldn't come up with the Portuguese term for the little bag on the back of airplane seats nor for a specific type of airstrip. Dictionary and internet researches did not bear fruits, so I relented and called my brother-in-law (an employee of a Brazilian airline company). He not only answered my questions, but also helped me "edit" the text to sound more colloquial and less "stifled" to the target audience: airline employees.

And I do not hesitate to find the name and phone number of a company or manufacturer in Brazil and call them out of the blue to ask for help. Sometimes you can't find anybody who may be of help but oftentimes an employee (or the owner) will be willing to spend 15 minutes on the phone with you�and he may even become a prospective client. In literary translations, it is becoming common practice to have the translation signed by a professional translator and a technical consultant. Even if the name of the consultant (who may or may not receive payment for the help provided) does not appear, most of the technical books are translated under this system. Hope I have been of help.

Cheers,

F.L.


Mar Rodríguez comments about working with other professionals:

Hello,

> I consider professionals in the subject area to be a valuable and trustworthy source for terminology.<

Definitely so. I know a lot of audiovisual translators (only through e-mail and the Internet), and they usually have to translate language from different fields: from medicine to legal, from documentaries about fishes to skateboarding movies... What they do is contact people who speak the jargon they need, interview them, ask them, etc.

There are usually very knowledgeable people on the different subjects, and most of them are happy to have an opportunity to talk about what they know best :-).

Mar


Subscriber U.G. adds a note about the word processing program NJStar:

I do not consider myself to be fluent in any other language than my native one, English. That being said, I keep "reading fluency" in a number of languages so that I can understand the journals, etc. One of those is Chinese.

I type Chinese in NJStar, which is a word processing program with many versatile functions, such as allowing you to choose whether you see the pinyin, or just the characters, making character suggestions when you are not sure, and correcting your grammar as you type. I actually manage to get a decent typing rhythm, and I suggest it. I use it for windows, but there is a Mac version too.

I am not sure if this will do for translators, but in order to learn the newly evolving languages of social policy in China, I correspond via email with a number of academic friends there, in Chinese, even though my compositional Chinese is not stellar. They understand, and I learn about current events, and I learn more of the language. Sometimes they try out the same thing with me, writing about a current event in English in order to get me to return both the feeling here and the words we use on it. In these fora, it is perfectly acceptable to then email back asking about a word.

U.G.


Mar Rodríguez responds to U.G.'s comment about keeping up with current terms:

Dear U.G.,

Definitely, that is one good way of keeping track of languages other than the one used in the place you are living in: keeping contact with people that live in the place where the other language is used for daily life.

We usually do it, mainly with other translators, in translators' fora, and for Spanish it is really interesting to get all the different variants of a word in the different countries: Spain, Per?, Colombia, Nicaragua, Cuba, the Spanish in the States (which is itself an interesting group of different varieties of Spanish)...

I find that nowadays it is useful to keep reading news, watching films, going on-line... in the other language to keep track of changes in spoken language.

Mar

Back to Top

Attitudes about Languages

W.Y. asks  Mar Rodríguez about the attitudes towards languages:

Ms. Rodríguez:

You've had a chance to live and work in Spain, Great Britain, and the United States. What is your impression of how much languages skills in general, and the translation and interpretation professions in particular, are respected in each country. It has been my impression that, in general, lipservice is paid to the benefits of language skills, but that these skills are taken for granted, by those who do not have them, and extremely undervalued in practice.
For example, as subject disciplines in high school, math and science are valued above all else while languages are considered "nice extras". And in the United States at least, someone with a Masters degree in languages would, in general, struggle to earn as much as another person with only a Bachelors degree in science.

This ties into my question yesterday about the ability to earn a decent living as a translator.

Thank you for your comments.

W.Y.

Mar Rodríguez replies to W.Y.:

Well, languages are very important in most countries, although I find there is a great deal of lack of knowledge about them, especially in the United States, where, just simply because of their size, it is difficult to have people understand that there may be a time when they are needed.

In Spain, I have had people come to me to ask me to translate a 64-page technical brochure in 2 days... then, of course, they are from my neighbourhood, where there is not a lot of knowledge about those things (University education was rare until a couple of years ago, and most people have not gone out of our country).

> This ties into my question yesterday about the ability to earn a decent living as a translator.<

Most translators complain about the difficulties of getting good rates, but then, it is a question of getting good clients. I also find that languages by themselves do not help too much, because you would be doomed to doing general translation (which usually does not need too much of a specialized language). I find that putting language together with a special field of knowledge, for example, law, medicine, engineering, etc. does actually give more possibilities to get good rates. For example, specialized translation in the field of medicine is, at least, $.07/word, which is not bad :-).

Good luck,

Mar


H.D. asks about monolingualism:

Here's a question for all the translators, based on one comment that Mar just posted:
>Well, languages are very important in most countries, although I find there is a great deal of lack of knowledge about them, especially in the United States, where, just simply because of their size, it is difficult to have people understand that there may be a time when they are needed.<

How do attitudes about language in the various countries where you work influence how you sell yourself, how much you get paid, and the kind of work that you do? Or do economic concerns--the need to have multilingual capabilities in the workplace, etc.--trump those social/cultural attitudes and local ideologies? How do other countries compare to the U.S. in this respect?

Some context: I am a freelance journalist who writes a lot about language, linguistics, and linguists. These stories I can usually sell if there's a clear commercial or broader economic impact; otherwise, it's difficult to appeal to an editor with the human or humanistic angle. I do find it true that people in the U.S. aren't very enlightened about various multilingual issues, but I do wonder to what degree it's a clichè to say that this is some true expression of the xenophobic American character, rather than a function of a whole set of economic and (as Mar suggested) geographical factors. To use an example, apparently the CIA's computers are unable to store text that isn't written with a Roman alphabet, but that's occurred for various complex reasons lost to the dim history of the agency--not because those decisions were made by Americans.

H.D.


Cami Townsend responds to H.D.:

The attitude about language and translation that has had the biggest impact on our company's business is the misconception that translation is a mere byproduct of knowing two or more languages--and I would have to say that this attitude is just as prevalent abroad as it is in the States.  What this leads to are unreasonable expectations about deadlines and pricing. Therefore, as an agency or freelance translator talking to a direct client, you often find yourself doing a whole lot of client education: not necessarily at the level of languages and why knowing them is important, but more at the level of what it takes to produce a good translation and how doing so is bigger than the issue of language. One of the reasons my boss started his company was that, while working at a law firm, he saw dozens of translations come through the door that were useless to the attorneys who needed them.  Clearly the translators knew the source language, he says, but they knew nothing about the law. So what they wrote was gibberish.  To summarize what I'm saying, the question is not so much how do my potential clients feel about the need to know foreign languages, but do they understand what's involved in translation?

-Cami


Matt Griffin offers his thoughts and encourages others to respond:

Okay, I'm going to give this one a stab... Do attitudes toward language differ between cultures?

Let's take an analogy: Why hasn't SMS or text messaging, which is wildly popular in Europe, not caught on in the States? Are we trapped in separate ideological wormholes? Maybe. Kids in America might like 2-way messaging as much as their European counterparts--if it were available. Since it's not, I'm inclined to see this as an issue of technology. Europe uses third generation technology, which hasn't been implemented in the US. Why? Go ask the CIA's computers...

And here's another... Why do the GE-EN translators have no clue about working as multimedia translators? Because the market is for Spanish translators. What conclusions can be drawn about attitudes toward language in this case?

Passing the baton...

Matt


L.R. comments:

Certainly. There's a whole body of literature on language attitudes and language ideologies within linguistic anthropology. I don't think any of it concerns technology per se, but I'd be happy to provide citations.

Cheers,

L.R.

Back to Top

Final Thoughts

Matt Griffin posts a final thought:

THE TASK OF THE TRANSLATOR

for Susanne

I told you I'd go out with you and I did go
with you
To the beach by train, lugging beach towels
and an umbrella.
Like the poem said, I promised to go out with you
into
The sun, as they say in Germany, and to the river
Where the trees are still green. I'll do the translation
later,
I said, and left the pages to rustle on my desk, like
The leaves in the poem that begins with the words,
"You promised--"
And ends with the image of sunlight falling
on a desk.

-Matt Griffin

*****

To read more about the intersection of literature and translation, including "The Reason I Finished the Dissertation" (no kidding), send me a line. I'll be happy to mail you the results of my favorite translation-related activity. In my case, at least, it's one of the perks of a non-academic career.

Thanks to all for the great discussion!

Matt

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Close of Discussion

Dear WRK4US,

It's Friday June 20 and I must say this has been a fabulous week. Speakers, subscribers, everybody did a super job of asking great questions and giving great answers. On behalf of the entire subscribership, I would like to express deep gratitude to our four wonderful speakers, Mar, Cami, Matt and Melanie. They shared very generously of their time, knowledge and experience, for which we are much in their debt. Thanks as well to those of you who asked questions and kept the discussion going. Way to go, everyone!

The next Guest Speaker Discussion will take place sometime in July, exact dates TBA. I will announce the topic when it has firmed up. Until then, you are free to use the list in whatever manner you choose as long as it is consistent with the list's purpose: to share information and encouragement regarding nonacademic careers for humanities, education and social science PhDs.

Happy exploring,

Paula Foster
WRK4US list manager

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