with (in alphabetical order)
Hosted by Paula Foster
The following Guest Speaker Discussion originally took place on WRK4US in July of the year 2000. Because WRK4US has a confidentiality policy, all names and email addresses have been altered or removed, except for the moderator's and the Guest Speakers'.
The discussion can be read in two ways- by simply scrolling down and reading the whole thing, or by clicking on the topical links below, which take you to specific places within the discussion. The discussion can also be printed out in its entirety for your reading convenience.
Special thanks to Deborah Alexander who volunteered her time to edit this discussion and prepare it for posting on the web. If you are interested in editing a future discussion, your help will be much appreciated; email Paula Foster, WRK4US List Manager, at pfchambers@sbcglobal.net
The Corporate Crossover -- Where/How to Start
Wireless Internet
Academic Writing vs. Internet Writing
Computers - Skills vs. Work Experience
Matching Academic Skills to IT Jobs
Tangible/Intangible Benefits Compared
Concluding Remarks from Host Paula Foster
Introduction by WRK4US Host Paula Foster:
Today marks the beginning of a Guest Speaker discussion on the topic of "Careers in the Info-Tech/Dot-Com Industry." We have four speakers this time: Wendy Waters, Kay Peterson, Mark Johnson, and Gene Lewis. They are all highly qualified to speak on this topic: all are either PhDs or ABDs in Humanities disciplines, yet all have left the academy and built successful careers in the info-tech and dot-com industries, and each will share some perspectives on Humanities folk working in these fields. Many thanks in advance to all four - it is a privilege to have them with us.
-Paula Foster
Discussion Host / WRK4US list manager
Mark Johnson
Introductory Remarks
My thanks to Paula for running this list and inviting us to join the week's discussion of Careers in the Info-Tech/Dot-Com Industry. I've broken my introduction into three sections: What I Do, How I Got Here, and Words of Advice.
What I Do
I am Director of Product Management for Bidland Systems. Bidland is an application service provider for online auctions and business exchanges. Our products are the engines inside online auctions and online exchanges. We don't actually auction things; we just provide the transaction and market-making tools that allow businesses to sell their products and services. As Director of Product Management, I'm responsible for setting the direction for all of our products, for researching the competitive landscape, and for hiring and clearing the way for a staff of product managers. I'm paid to use my imagination to confront problems and construct solutions. As such, it's a creative job that keeps my brain engaged around the clock.
Before my gig at Bidland, I spent five splendid years at Intuit. At Intuit, I played various roles from technical writer to corporate instructor to researcher to user interface designer to Webmaster. When people tell you that responding to classified ads is a waste of time, don't believe them; my entrée to Intuit was by way of a classified in the Sunday paper.
I left Intuit because Bidland offered me the opportunity to work with a small company and to play an integral part in its maturation. This is not something I could do within the well-established Intuit. At Bidland I could experience (or suffer!) change and acquire knowledge at a ferocious pace. Nearly a year into my new adventure, I'm still happy with my change.
For the past 12 years, I have also done considerable work as a freelance writer, photographer, and Web consultant. A few of the organizations I've worked for include Microsoft, Gateway, The San Diego Union-Tribune, Editor and Publisher, VeloNews, the University of California, and Trade Service Corporation.
How I got here
While I was an undergraduate at the University of California, San Diego, it was distinctly clear to me that English professors lead a fine life. I made it my goal to become one of those erudite characters.
By my second year of graduate school at Boston University, it also became distinctly clear to me that, while professors lead a fine life indeed, for many, it is a life fraught with the anxiety of an itinerant Mexican migrant laborer. What the naive undergraduate does not see is that until they get tenure, professors suffer from the gnawing awareness that their movements from one temporary contract to the next are not steps toward a higher, more satisfying career. I had the sense that, no matter how hard they apply themselves, professors are often not in command of their career destinies. The agent of a professor's vocational progression seems to be an ill-defined whimsical other. Life is fleeting, and I did not want to spend a decade of it in such a rudderless state. So, I looked inside and asked myself what, besides reading and teaching, kept me busily engaged with life.
Like Thoreau, I believe that "success usually comes to those who are too busy to be looking for it." Along with reading, seeking and riding waves are the acts that have always kept me busy to the point that time evaporates. When I'm floating on my board on the edge of some continent, I'm 100-percent engaged with life.
If I did what kept me busy and happy, I figured that, as Thoreau wisely counsels, success would follow. After all, I'm as driven as any other over-achieving PhD, and I knew that I would not go to mulch simply because I was outside the university. So, after completing my PhD, I heeded my moral compass and moved back to San Diego. There, I could surf. I also figured I could marshal my talents into some sort of paycheck. Fueled by Thoreau, conviction, gall, discipline, and resourcefulness, I quickly found work doing marketing and corporate communications writing for several San Diego companies. (I got my first jobs by cold-calling businesses from the Yellow Pages; this is not a time for timidity.) These initial freelance jobs were the alpine tributaries of a vocational river that, for me, grows wider, faster, and more exciting with every year.
Geoffrey Moore, a Renaissance literature PhD turned venture capitalist/writer/business strategist, recently told me that in his experience, "having a humanities degree makes it harder to get your first job and easier to get every subsequent one." Moore explained to me that "Language skills is a part of this, but I think the bigger part is the ability to use metaphor as a problem-solving tool. The irony of the whole thing is, I thought I was selling out (joining the Philistines) but in fact learned that my new world had as much intellectual energy, a whole lot more social energy, and real honest-to-god budgets, so it was a great call in retrospect."
Moore's statement jibes precisely with my experiences as an academic expatriate. Excellence outside the university is contingent upon the ability to wed metaphorical and critical thinking. And who is better equipped to see and interrogate what others cannot see and do not understand than the literature, art history, or sociology PhD?
Don't worry about your lack of a business degree; you already have the ingredients for business excellence--imagination, handiness with metaphor, and a highly-tuned set of critical thinking skills. Your mind has honed in on and stretched around everything from the finery of Henry James to the sprawl of the novelistic tradition. You can imagine solutions and interrogate propositions that your industry-standard MBAs can't begin to fathom. Business distinction is about imagining the unknown and tearing into the multiplicity of voices and texts informing a proposition. (Yes, I think about Bakhtin just about every day.) Take command of this fact, and you have taken the first step toward transferring your considerable skills into a career beyond the university.
Words of advice
-When looking for a job outside the university, be as persistent and bold as a 16th-Century explorer. Look at your new vocational endeavor a project that will add to your store of experience and knowledge. Seeing your next vocational path as a research project may spark your enthusiasm in helpful ways. It's not selling out. It's a new way to know more.
-Internships are a great way to build contacts and test your tolerance for the outside air while in graduate school. They don't pay much, if anything at all, but they open career doors. Though I did not know it then, doing an internship while in graduate school was one of the shrewdest career moves I've made. My summer in the offices of a Boston magazine paid nothing then, but the remuneration in the years that followed has been significant. (If you don't know what an internship is, then march down to your undergraduate career services office and ask.)
-Don't be too picky. If you're considering employment in the dot com world, "Content Development" is a great way to get your foot in the proverbial door. Basically, content developers grind out prose for Web sites. Content development is often hack work with pay to match, but don't be proud. Be enthusiastic about the job gift you've received, no matter how lowly. Even if the actual work may not be that challenging to start with, it will give you contacts and business experience of exponential value.
-When you begin to question your fitness for employment outside the university, clobber your skepticism with the undeniable reality that you live in one of the most employee-hungry times in the last century. Because graduate school necessarily focuses students on a single topic within an insular world, completing at PhD tends to make us forget that our futures are wildly fenestrated. The vocational doors and windows available to an intelligent, self-reliant, optimistic individual are countless. Skepticism is often a way of deflecting our fear of launching out into the unknown. Blow it out with action!
-Finally, take a peak at the Web site I put together as a resource for humanities PhDs who are considering careers beyond the academy: www.ironstring.com/sellout It expands upon some of the themes and people I discuss here.
Mark Johnson
Gene Lewis
Introductory Remarks
I have recently moved into the position of Vice President of Software Development at an Internet startup company in southern California. I have worked in software development companies for the last 18 years, having started as a technical writer. Prior to entering the software development business, I was in graduate school working on my Ph.D. in history. In what follows, I will briefly describe my academic background, my reasons for leaving academia, how I made the transition to the non-academic world, and my career path since that time.
Academic Background
I received a B.S. in mathematics with a minor in philosophy in 1973. While working on my degree in math, I also completed the equivalent coursework for a degree in history. My undergraduate years were an exciting time for me academically as I discovered new fields of study to which I had not been exposed before. I decided to pursue an academic career and chose history, rather than math, as the area for my graduate studies. As much as I love math, history was, and is, my intellectual passion.
I entered graduate school in 1973 in the field of modern European history, with emphasis on modern France. For my masters' thesis, I chose to research the French response to the massive influx of Spanish refugees fleeing the civil war between 1936 and 1939. I completed my degree in 1975 and moved from the University of Tennessee to UCLA to work on my Ph.D. I was advanced to candidacy at the end of 1978 and started my preliminary research. However, by 1978, it was clear that the career opportunities in history were limited and growing smaller by the year, and I had to look seriously at career options outside academia.
Moving out of Academia
I wasn't quite sure where to look for opportunities outside academia, and, to be honest, I wasn't sure if I had any marketable skills. I began by looking for opportunities that require history expertise. I sought opportunities at government research organizations, secondary private schools, and community colleges. I also tried to locate west coast publishing companies that publish historical works. None of these searches bore fruit.
My next path was to consider starting over in school, either law school or business school. At the time, however, I could not muster enthusiasm for starting a new program, and, while I didn't rule out the option, I didn't pursue it with any energy. I did, however, decide to pick up a couple of computer science classes while I was still associated with UCLA.
At about the same time, the UCLA placement center recognized that, given the demographic trends of the times, many of its Ph.D. students would not find careers in academia. As a result, they began a "Career Options Program for Ph.D. Students," into which I readily enrolled. The program focused on identifying the transferability of the skills developed in graduate school and on finding strategies for selling these skills to businesses. We used skills-based resumes rather than the traditional format, and the program worked hard to find internships where we could actually get business work experience. I did participate in an internship at a Los Angeles magazine publisher where I analyzed the efficiency of their mail system. The internship and the work we did in the program gave me some confidence that I could apply skills developed in graduate school in business situations.
In assessing my skills, I identified verbal and written communication skills, as well as solid research skills, as my strongest skills to present to the business world. Selling these skills in combination with computer programming familiarity, I was able, in 1982, to obtain a position as a technical writer in a software development company. At the time, I didn't have a clear understanding of technical writing or what a software development company does, but I was ready to find out.
My Career History
My first day at work was extraordinarily discouraging. Someone asked me to photocopy documents, and, all I could think was that I had landed a brainless, boring job. Very quickly, however, I discovered that the technical writing group I had joined gave me many opportunities. The company was a new company and growing quickly. A year and a half after I joined the group, the manager resigned, and I applied for the position. I managed the documentation group for the next four years, during which time I was promoted to the next level of management and picked up several other groups to manage as well.
Two years after becoming a manager, I decided to return to school. I wanted to grow my career, but to do so, I thought, required a work-related degree. So, while continuing to work full time, I returned to UCLA in the MBA program for the fully employed. I finished the degree in three years, in 1989.
Over the 10 years I spent in this company, I managed many different software development activities, eventually learning all parts of the process from requirements to product release. In 1992, I decided to leave this company to spend several years at home following the birth of my second child.
After two years at home, I was ready to go back to work, but the thought sent me into an immediate panic. I had not been job-hunting in a decade, and I had no idea if my knowledge about one software company was transferable to another. My fears were soon put to rest. A work associate had moved to a new company as its Vice President. He called me and asked me to come to work for him as one of his directors. I jumped at the chance and quickly found that most everything I had learned at my previous job was applicable to my new job. After 2 1/2 great years, I found a director position in another software company much closer to where I live. I was a director at this company for four years, a position I recently left to join an Internet startup company as its Vice President of Software Development.
How I Feel About the Career Path I Chose
When I took my first job as a technical writer, I had no idea that I was choosing a path that would turn into a life-long career. I was simply trying out a job and getting experience. I do not think I would have remained a technical writer for my entire career, as it turned out to be an activity I do not particularly enjoy. What I found that I do enjoy is management, and I consider myself fortunate that the opportunity to move into management arose. In moving into management, I found talents within myself that I did not know I had, and I found a career that gives me great satisfaction. I will try to explain what it is that I find satisfying in my career.
First of all, the main characteristic of management is working with people, and, as it turns out, I really like working with people all day long. In the early years, when I was a first line manager, directly managing technical staff, I found the greatest satisfaction in creating an environment in which people could do their best work and in helping people break through roadblocks to accomplish their tasks. As a manager, I sincerely believe that every person brings a unique set of skills and abilities to the workplace and that my primary role is to find ways to play to each person's strengths. Part of working with people is teaching and mentoring, and since teaching was my favorite aspect of academia, I found a way to still get the satisfaction of teaching. Today, where my direct reports are first line managers, I find one of my favorite activities is the weekly informal management training sessions I hold (modeled much like graduate seminars). Helping first line managers grow and develop and become better at their jobs gives me great satisfaction.
The second aspect of management that appeals to me is setting direction and defining the "vision." I contend that anything we are doing can always be improved (our processes, our quality, our products), and this view allows me to envision where to lead the group. I find it fun to identify the "mountain" for my groups and then to help them find ways to climb it. Reaching the goals and then moving on gives me great personal satisfaction. Along the way, I take great pleasure in rewarding the team for its accomplishments.
I also find that, by and large, my career gives me the opportunity to work with some immensely talented people, who are bright, creative and innovative. I enjoy the intellectual challenge that comes in such an environment and the fact that I am constantly learning. I have also found a wide diversity of people in the business with many and varied interests and backgrounds. My appreciation for the diversity of human beings and the variety of unique talents has certainly grown from my experience in the business world.
Moving from Academia to the Business World -- What to Expect
It is a cultural shift when you move from the academic world to the business world, and the following are a few of my observations on some aspects of the business culture. You should keep in that my perspective is from the high-tech industry, and other industries (healthcare, insurance, banking, retail, manufacturing, etc.) may differ significantly. You should also bear in mind that I left academia twenty years ago, and I do not necessarily know what academia is like today.
First of all, let's start with the nuts and bolts. In the high-tech industry in southern California, salaries are higher than in academia. Entry-level technical staff probably start around $40,000 per year. Good technical staff with about five years experience may earn between $60,000 and $90,000. First line managers in software companies in southern California can earn between $60,000 and $100,000. Directors have an average salary of between $90,000 and $140,000. In pre-IPO and dot-com companies, salaries may run lower because of the expectation of stock pay outs.
The amount of time one can take off from the job is also different. For almost anyone starting at a new company, vacation is only two weeks a year, plus holidays. In academia, even though you may work through quarter/semester breaks, the breaks still provide a change of pace. Quarter/semester breaks do not exist in the business world, and when I made the transition to business, I found that about every ten weeks I wanted the change of pace to which I had been accustomed in a quarter setting. The concept of a sabbatical has migrated from universities to a few, very rare, software companies. I have never worked for one, and, consequently, cannot say much about how they are implemented.
Flexible work-hours are fairly common in the software industry. In general, this means that you have flexibility and choice regarding when you start and stop work. At the same time, though, workdays and workweeks are longer than you probably think. Some industry estimates suggest that employees in software companies average fifty-hour workweeks, and I can tell you that sixty-hour workweeks are not uncommon at certain times. The concept of telecommuting, while discussed often, is only catching on very slowly. The same is even more true of job-sharing and part-time work.
In business, people tend to be more action-oriented than idea-oriented. The time spent on analysis may seem short to a former academic, and the analysis may seem superficial. In some cases, there may be no analysis at all, and you may experience culture shock the first time you encounter the person who "shoots from the hip" without thinking.
While there are a great number of educated and intelligent people in the business world, there is greater diversity than you probably encountered in academia, although, there may be less ethnic, racial and gender diversity than you see in academia. Unlike in academia, education is not always a pre-requisite to a given job. I have worked with some highly intelligent and very successful people in this industry who do not hold university degrees. Education is not necessarily a highly valued credential; what is valued is the ability to accomplish the goal in a cost effective and timely way. People in business may by wary of your degrees, whether from an anti-intellectual bias or from a belief that academics live in ivory towers and are out of touch with the "real world." My advice on this one is to focus on accomplishing business goals and don't worry if your academic credentials are not acknowledged or recognized.
The hierarchy in business organizations may be greater than you expect unless you end up in a very small firm. Military terms like "chain of command' are actually used, and the concepts are actually followed. This is less true in very small companies where organizations tend to be "flat."
Careers in High-Tech/Dot-Com Industries
"High-tech" industries can include many types of industries besides computer software (where I have always worked); computer hardware, electronics, bio-tech, telecommunications, optics, and other scientific industries are all part of the high-tech sector. I think "dot-com" businesses are any businesses that conduct business over the Internet and include everything from services to entertainment to retail. Most of my experience is limited to the computer software industry and its role in dot-com businesses; I have little or no knowledge of the other business sectors and cannot say much about careers in those segments. Please keep this limitation in mind as you read my comments on careers in high-tech.
There are several careers in high-tech firms where academic skills are applicable; the biggest challenge is to present those skills in a way that demonstrates their value to the business world. Some of the careers where academic skills can be applied are:
-Technical Writing: Almost all technical products require written instructions on how to use them. The more complex the product, the greater the amount of documentation needed. Today, many technical documents are delivered to customers in electronic format. Customers may or may not actually print the documents. In addition, many products, especially software products, also have on-line documentation or help systems for users to access while running the products. Technical writers need the ability to understand technical products from a user perspective and the ability to communicate clearly.
-Training: Many high-tech products, especially software products, include training for the customers. Sometimes the training is in the form of electronic tutorials, which are written by the training staff. Other training is provided by instructors, who spend time with customers explaining how to utilize the products. Trainers need to be able to understand the products and how they are used, to develop course curricula and to present instructional material in a clear and understandable way.
-Marketing Communications: Marketing material and communications are required in most high-tech companies. The staff producing such material must understand how to position/market the products and how to communicate clearly.
-Marketing/Product Analysis: Most high-tech companies perform some level of market and product analysis. Anyone from the social sciences who has used statistical methods in their work can apply these skills to market surveys, customer focus groups, and other forms of market analysis.
Conclusion
In conclusion, there are many opportunities in the high-tech business world where academic skills can be applied. You can present your skills in a skills-based resume that stresses how your academic skills add value to the business world. The high-tech industry is an exciting and dynamic business with countless opportunities. I look forward to your questions and providing any information to you during my week participation in this program.
Kay Peterson
Introductory Remarks
Hi, all. I'm Kay Peterson, and I've agreed to be a guest speaker while we discuss the field of Info-Tech. I'm a PhD in English from Northwestern University. My experience isn't as extensive as Mark's, but I think the path I've traveled is not unlike his. I finished my degree in June '98 (conferred in December '98) and landed my current job in November '98. I'm employed as the Manager of Editorial Services at FastWeb.com, a free online scholarship search service for students. As the company's main staff writer and editor, I control everything text-related: developing and writing the on-site content, creating email-based newsletters to our users, producing print collateral (brochures, mission statements, etc.), writing the company newsletter, and assisting all departments in their wordy needs.
Here's a little about how I got here from there. During my first four years of my graduate program, it became pretty clear to me that the job market was not opening up -- and probably wasn't going to do so for me. I watched class after class of PhDs leave grad school, head to the MLA (some with very impressive credentials), and come back with no job offers. Year after year, these same grads hung around, interviewing here and there, and teaching innumerable low-paying adjunct instructorships. I knew that was not what I wanted, and so I figured I'd better start looking elsewhere for opportunities.
After finishing my qualifying exams, I took a full-time position as an academic coordinator for a gifted program for pre-college students at Northwestern (the Center for Talent Development, or CTD). It started as a stop-gap job--a temporary summer gig to help me pay the bills. At the end of the summer, I asked about a full-time position that was similar to the one I had that had been open for some time. My boss was happy to hire me, and I was happy to take it. I worked there for a little less than 2 years (1995 to 1997), but ultimately, I decided that it wasn't really the field for me. I began to realize that since my first career (college teaching at the professor level) had fallen through, I didn't want to simply 'fall into' another career by default. I wanted to take some time to see what I really wanted to do, and prepare for that career. That, and the fact that the clock was ticking on my dissertation, convinced me to quit my job at CTD. With my savings from my time as a full-time administrator, I had a bankroll to support about a year and a half of full-time diss work.
Once I finished my dissertation (actually, in June of '98), I focused on landing a job and gathering the skills and experience that would help. I realized that although I had a lot of marketable skills from my past job experience and my work in my graduate program, the thing that would keep my resume out of the circular file would be hard skills--such as fluency in various computer programs. Since the Internet was booming, I figured I'd better develop some comfort level there, so I picked up a "For Dummies" book and started learning HTML. My roommate and I built "The Escape Pod for Humanities PhDs" (http://www.geocities.com/escapepod.geo) as a way to share our experience with other job-seeking PhDs and to exercise our new HTML skills. At that point, there were really no online communities -- or really, communities anywhere -- where grad students were talking productively about getting a job. Based on conversations with some of my colleagues, I discovered that as slight as my non-academic job docket was, it added up to a great deal more experience and employment savvy than most grad students had. Escape Pod was a chance to share what I knew, develop my thoughts on the topic further and, in a way, declare my independence from forces that were shaping my destiny. I'd watched my entire profession--students, professors, all -- pretend the job crisis wasn't happening. It was enlivening to declare that it was, indeed, happening, but that I was going to survive -- and that others could, too.
As part of this career development, I started exploring other interests. A friend noted that I was an "obsessive writer," so I started thinking about how I could build my competency and find new outlets for my talents. Eventually, I co-authored a Web-published serial novel with a friend of mine (http://www.geocities.com/waylaid.geo/) and started trolling the publishing world for freelance writing opportunities. I did a few short-term gigs for a 'creative' temp agency that gave me the chance to do some proofreading and even a little copywriting.
After six months of sending about maybe 5 resumes a week (and only two job interviews in all that time), I finally landed my current job. I really stumbled into it after applying for an education marketing position at the same company, for which I was not really qualified. I was interviewed, but turned down -- with the vague suggestion that 'someday' they may need a writer, and they'd keep me in mind. 'Someday' turned into the very next day, when I got a phone call asking if I'd like to interview to be their new (and first ever) newsletter writer. Another interview, a writing test, and a 10-page follow-up letter later, and I had the job. My job offer was a bit of a fluke, but I think these kinds of flukes are common on the Internet, and I'd advise any other PhD to take advantage of them.
I left academe initially because of the dire state of the job market, but in the process discovered the job crisis helped me choose a better path for myself. Reflecting on my move, I think now that the academy was never an ideal place for me. I need a more social environment, with a great deal of variety and good blend of practical and intellectual work. My current job is really more of a dream job than I ever could have designed. It requires that I exercise my creative muscle on a regular basis, but it also has a strong administrative component that allows me to be anal-retentive to my heart's content. I do a lot of writing, more revising, tons of editing, and have had the chance to develop a great mentor relationship with both my supervisor and the less experienced writers I supervise. I love my job, which is challenging, ever-changing and full of potential.
That's all for now. I look forward to this conversation.
Kay Peterson
Manager of Editorial Services
FastWeb.com, Inc.
Wendy Waters
Opening Remarks
Hello wrk4us members,
I've been working at Indexonly.com as the supervisor/manager of the Content Editing Department since April. Indexonly.com is an Internet "Start Up," which means it's a newer company, and is not yet trading publicly (although this could happen quickly). In theory, startups have particular characteristics that are sometimes different from larger, more established information technology companies. We might all wish to discuss this at some point this week in order to sort out what these differences exactly are (or if indeed there are differences). Anyway -- on with my intro. Paula suggested that we answer the following questions as part of our opening remarks:
How'd I get from Ph.D. in World & Latin American History to managing Content at Indexonly.com?
Similar to Mark, I became disenchanted with academic life around the time of my qualifying exams. With the help of a scholarship I was able to research & write my dissertation largely away from the university, which gave me some independent time to think. During that time I became increasingly convinced that (a) I was indeed both disenchanted with the academic atmosphere and generally bored with it as well, and (b) that living in Vancouver & British Columbia, and doing the activities I enjoy here was more important to me than an academic job (and the two were not likely to come as a package).
After finishing my dissertation in early 1999, I spent just over a year teaching part time and trying to build enough of a network to do consulting work related to Latin America (research and writing for companies, non-governmental organizations, etc.). This never really panned out. Although I enjoyed the work I found, I really didn't like the constant need to try to find work and then ensure that they paid me. I also felt like I always needed to be working on something day and night -- just like grad school, nothing changed.
One day, while looking for consulting work on several Internet sites, I spotted a Vancouver-based company looking for someone who understood computers and the Internet, and could translate more technical speak into easy English. I've always loved computers and have been programming as a hobby since I was eleven, teaching myself many programming languages over the years (although few that are in demand now), including most recently HTML (website language). With this background, I thought there might be a job for me there.
I'd applied to several other (non-computer) jobs over the previous year, without success. I didn't think this was likely to be any different. Needing a break from writing lectures, I decided to give myself 20 minutes to craft a creative, off-the-wall cover letter to that company to accompany my resume. I tried to present myself as an intelligent, overachiever with useful skills and experiences transferable to any Internet company. The spontaneous e-mail cover was rife with sentence fragments and other minor grammar mistakes, which I didn't notice until later when I re-read it. Yet it was also short & snappy and (as my current boss described a version of it) I "didn't sound like a typical academic at all." When I hit "Send" on the e-mail, I never expected to hear from these people. Instead, they phoned the next day and asked for an interview.
Excited by this, I sent the same resume, and almost the same cover letter -- minus a few of the grammar errors -- to other Internet companies in the Vancouver area. Similar responses not interviews, but positive reactions (as in: "Lets get together in a couple weeks"). And, then I saw Indexonly's ad in the Vancouver Sun, the main daily newspaper here. They wanted someone with "supervisor experience." I decided that helping up to 40 students all write research papers, and keeping track with what they were up to amounted to supervisory experience and said so (albeit more professionally) in an addition to my existing cover letter. I think this statement helped considerably in getting me the interview and the offer (and yes, I've found that the skills honed supervising students are quite similar to those I've needed as a supervisor/manager).
So, within 2 weeks, I went from not even considering an Internet job, to accepting an offer. And, for the first month, I was still teaching part time.
So, What do I do all day? Well, there hasn't been a typical day in a few weeks now, so I'll list some of the tasks that I could be working on at any one time. First, let me explain briefly what Indexonly is: basically we're an electronic yellow pages. We have 17 million business listings -- and more arriving every day -- for North America, divided into thousands of categories. My department's job is to make searches of our content relevant and accurate (adjusting categories, keywords, and what is listed in each category). When I started, I was unsure as to whether or not this would be interesting. (How can working at a business directory be interesting?) I have found the job a pleasure and enough of a challenge to keep me highly interested. Making the content work, managing a department within a larger company, and seeing the inner workings of a fast-growing business are just some of what intrigues me. There are tasks I find tedious but increasingly these are becoming almost unnoticeable, and instead sometimes welcome slow-downs in what can be a fast-paced day.
So, What exactly do I do? And what do I like and dislike doing? On any given day I will do a number of the following things:
- Respond to our advertising sales persons comments and needs regarding the categories and what is listed in each. This is often a diplomatic effort in balancing the desires of one person against the global needs of our site. Some questions are an interesting challenge; some are loathsome to deal with. When an advertising sale is pending, it can be a special pleasure albeit under pressure to make the right changes.
- Respond to end users' concerns about their company's listing, or the site's content generally. This is great because it means people are using our site, and in sending responses. I enjoy crafting these responses.
- Check up on large, content clean-up jobs that ran over night or are scheduled to run on the database at night. This includes checking some of the work done by the editor and assistants in my department.
- Work with the Database Administrator (a specific and specialized type of programmer), the Webmaster, and other programmers to solve a particular problem we might be noticing with the content, website and/or the advertisements. This can be really neat. Lots of bright people all working together to solve a problem.
- Spy on the competition and see how they're doing, perhaps discussing them with others in the company. I like this task. It uses a lot of "historians" skills (and maybe those of English & Language majors too) to look for clues and reach conclusions about what is going on in the industry.
- Read resumes for open positions in my department -- frightening and amusing, not to mention educational.
- Work on the ongoing budgets and plans for the department (it's a fast growing company) and discuss these with my supervisor, the Chief Technical Officer. Request and help design new internal applications.
- Check up on what people in my department are doing. We've been doing the same set of tasks for 6 weeks now, so there hasn't been that much need for supervising as everyone knows what they are doing. That is changing starting today and I'll be spending more time with the team.
- Identify improvements that can be made to our data, and set up "to do" sheets for people in my department.
- Actually do some of the jobs that my department is working on (and I HAVE to do this an hour or two per day at least -- in order to understand the content and what the department needs), which can be tedious, but only doing them a couple hours at most, at a time, actually can make them enjoyable as I can crank up the music in my headphones and just plod away editing records.
- Write up some instructions or background information on the content for salespeople or other internal users.
- Joke with my co-workers -- it's a fun, easy going, and young place.
- Friday after 4, I might have a beer at my desk.
- Attend meetings about company direction or the departments.
- Give a short presentation to the company or a sub group or investors, etc. about the content and what my department is doing.
- Contribute ideas about new enhancements to the site, or to internal applications (software we use to manage it) this is also creative and interesting, and draws on my minor ages-ago-background doing some computer programming.
So, What are the Differences from Academia?
- The positive, welcoming atmosphere when I started and ever since.
- The great experience of everyone contributing as a team toward a goal.
- The job market is good, especially at Internet startups.
Without tons of money, these companies cannot always attract individuals with lots of Internet experience to work in their middle/lower management/supervisory jobs. This means they're actually looking for intelligent people making a career jump to fill them (and from what I know of other positions like mine, the initial pay is comparable to that which a starting assistant professor would make maybe slightly less, but then there are 'Stock Options' that may make up the difference).
What kind of a person would like a content job at an Internet startup? This is a tough one.
First, I'd say, you can't be hung up on pretenses like whether you have your own office. I don't, although I do have my own desk. Also, you can't need tons of privacy in which to work. I think Indexonly is typical of most Internet companies that use an open work area. It's really necessary to be able to have quick consultations around someone's computer screen, or talk across a desk or two. Everyone can see what you're working on, and you can see what they're working on.
Second, to (a) be hired and (b) do well at any leadership-type Internet job, you'd need to be the type of person who likes challenges and thrives under them. Some insecurity and uncertainty inspires you rather than scares you. If this is you communicate it in a resume and cover letter somehow.
Third, you can't take yourself or your work too seriously; being professional, yes, but willing to "go with the flow" and "roll with the punches."
Finally, you have to be a bit of an Internet junkie and like working with computers.
In closing, I think the Internet sector is a great place for former humanities graduate students. The atmosphere is flexible, there are intellectual and personal challenges galore, and you can use a lot of skills that you've honed and perhaps don't even know you've acquired. As odd as it may sound, in the past four months I've learned that I gained a lot more in graduate school and teaching than knowledge of the Mexican Revolution.
I'm open to any questions. Also, feel free to ask me (and I think I can speak for the others here) what seem like basic questions about computer or Internet terms that we use. It's easy to ramble on about something I deal with every day, forgetting that others are less familiar with the material and terminology.
Cheers,
Wendy Waters
The Corporate Crossover -- Where/How to Start
Wendy Waters:
Hi everyone. I'd like to ask Mark a question. (By the way, I loved your introductory post, Mark). What, if anything, was the hardest part for you of adapting to working in the corporate environment at Intuit? What surprised you the most about it, at first?
Mark Johnson:
The biggest surprise was not a hard surprise. I was amazed at how well I was cared for. I really felt like my employer was committed to me and to my well-being. It was something I had not experienced in the university.
Subscriber KT:
I agree with Mark here. Although I had many problems with my supervisor, the organization that I worked for treated me very well and with a great deal of respect. I'd wager that most academics that I know who made the corporate crossover feel well treated by their companies, even when they have problems with other parts of the job.
-KT
Subscriber DF:
I've been looking into the whole dot-com thing here in New York. I'm a humanities oriented sociologist with a very good background doing social science research. In particular, I've become interested in something called usability research, which, if not mistaken, is aimed at answering questions about how users interact with software and web sites. If you look around at the various job sites, it seems to be pretty hot right now. I have two issues I wanted to raise with our panelists, particularly Mark Johnson.
The first relates to the comment that one should be willing to start at the bottom doing content creation, or whatever is appropriate to your background. I've recently been looking into some usability research type jobs and have gotten the impression that because I have not specifically done usability research in the past, I would only be a candidate for an entry-level sort of position doing interviewing and the like. Let me get up on my high horse for a moment to state that for the past two years I've been called Director of Research at a non-profit organization (running telephone and mail surveys
for a variety of in-house research projects) and prior to that had five-plus years doing qualitative and quantitative research and teaching research methodology at the undergraduate and graduate level. My feeling is that while I may lack specific experience doing usability testing, my larger background and capabilities should make me a prime candidate for a higher-level position. Indeed, one reason I started to pursue the dot-com world was the sense that it was likely to be more open to someone with an eclectic background who was truly capable of thinking out of the box. Given this kind of background does the panel still think it is necessary to start on the ground floor?
The second question has to do with the speed at which the Internet industry is moving. I have not been pulling out all the stops searching for a dot-com job as I am working on several writing projects which take up a good deal of my time. Yet I have the sense that if one doesn't get on the boat right away, it will depart, and there won't be another until DNA computing and instantaneous teleporting become technologically feasible. Any comments on this fear... does one wait until retirement to write (my subject will still be there)?
-DF
Wendy Waters:
Hi DF. I'll let Mark offer his advice on where you might expect to start (for what it's worth, I managed to start only about a step up from the bottom, but as I've proven myself, the job has changed to one with much more responsibility and respect). However, I will offer an answer to the second question having to do with the speed at which the Internet industry is moving. As part of making the transition from Academia, I spend a reasonable amount of time reading about the Internet industry in such publications as Fast Company and E-Company (Fastcompany in particular I find both fascinating and enjoyable to read, and you can read it online at www.fastcompany.com ). From this research and my own minor amount of experience, I'd say the Internet industry will not go away, and it still has a long way to go to "mature" (if it ever will) to the point where specific jobs and titles will exist for which you'll be able to get a diploma.
Also, the Internet industry is starting to divide into the conventional Internet, as we have now, and the wireless Internet as well, which is content accessible from devices like Palm Pilots and Cell Phones. So, it might be worth trying to jump in on the wireless web content side now, while the ship is still being built, so you can't miss the boat and instead could help shape what it will look like. Plus, on a small sized screen -- often without a good keyboard -- usability issues grow in importance.
Going in another direction, as technology increases, there are new interfaces other than websites that companies will use to attract visitors. Virtual Realty and high quality streaming multimedia are being developed for the future Internet. I had a couple interviews with a company getting ready for the next evolution of computer technology. This will create new demands for content and usability.
Also, look around the Internet -- there are no shortages of ugly, clumsy sites. Clearly, the industry has a long ways to go in terms of the usability of conventional Internet sites. And, as competition for visitor time continues to increase, having an attractive and user friendly site will become increasingly crucial (right now, I think it tends to be the raw content that gets people there, no matter how clumsy, but once a dozen sites all have the same content, then the competition will be in usability).
So, if you can make the shift now, great. But by my read, there will be good opportunities available for some years to come.
-Wendy
Mark Johnson:
DF, with your background in sociology, you are exceptionally well suited to a career in usability research. Usability is a terrific field to be in right now for one reason; usable Web sites contribute directly to the bottom line. If your site is usable, it makes more money. You are sitting on a Background that is pure gold.
Run, as fast as you can, to the nearest software firm you can find. And with your experience, you should not settle for an entry-level content position. Angle for a position with a usability team. For more information on usability (also know as human-computer interaction, or HCI), please visit these sites:
www.upassoc.org (good jobs listing for "human factors" specialists such as yourself)
www.useit.com (By Dr. Jakob Nielson, the guru of usability)
www.acm.org/sigchi/hci-sites/ (good list of HCI resources)
You should also try the careers section of Web sites for corporations that pay a lot of attention to usability when designing products: Intuit, Microsoft, and Adobe. All of these companies are hungry for talented, experienced researchers such as yourself.
-Mark J.
Subscriber HB:
DF, another field you might consider in the industry, especially the client-services arena, is account planning. A stand-by in traditional ad agencies, such roles have become far more important in interactive of late. Account planners deal more indirectly with usability issues, so this might not be of great interest, but they do gauge user expectation and needs through research, user surveys, and market assessments. Essentially, it entails using qualitative research to gauge user and customer expectations and then directing product development in accordance with such findings.
A comment about usability research: In the industry, there is still a certain amount of tension between research methodology and design. Thus, you may find that some employers are expecting candidates for usability fields (information architecture & human computer interaction) to have a design background. I say this not to be discouraging, but just so that you might be aware that such an expectation might arise in the dot-com and Internet client services industries. Otherwise, I agree with Mark--your experience warrants a more senior position; I think you're right to direct your applications accordingly.
Best,
-HB
Paula Foster:
Dear Speakers, Maybe you can help me understand a little more about this wireless Internet thing. First of all, can you clarify for me the differences between the regular Internet I already know and this new "wireless Internet" I keep hearing about? I have trouble seeing how a regular website could possibly be transmitted to the tiny screen of a cellular phone, so they must be different, but I'd like more information about that. Secondly, why on earth would anyone want or need to access the (wireless) Internet over one's cellular phone? Don't we already have enough connectivity in our lives? What does it mean for society that the technocrats are pushing us to be always connected, all the time? Should we be scared or happy?
-Paula Foster
Gene Lewis:
Wireless Internet, as I understand it, is just what you think it is. As it develops, people will probably use devices the size of a Palm Pocket rather than the size of a telephone. They will use it most for things like getting e-mail. Media/Entertainment are also looking at wireless. For example, today in your car, you are limited to local radio stations. With wireless, you can get Internet Radio, which allows you to pick from stations around the world.
-Gene
Subscriber HB:
Really, all the wireless Internet means is that you're using a wireless device to access content, and thus that whatever content must be friendly to the limitations of such devices (e.g. color, size, layout).
Wireless content is transmitted via a different protocol, or communications method than the sort of Internet content we've grown accustomed to. As you point out, because of the limitations of cell phones, PDAs and the like, publishers and content providers must supply information to such devices in a different format than they do for standard web-based content. Typically, the content itself is stored as raw data, and publishers use different means to format and deliver the same content to PC-based browsers, wireless devices, and even printed documents. As such, the content on wireless Internet-capable devices is usually considerably more terse, truncated, or otherwise limited in scope.
>Secondly, why on earth would anyone want or need
>to access the (wireless) internet over one's
>cellular phone? Don't we already have enough
>connectivity in our lives?
You're not really browsing with a wireless device. The most successful wireless-capable content and service providers will be those who are offering services that would be truly useful for people on the go. Examples include travel reservation systems, stock quote and trading services, and other medium- to high-need, on-demand services. Other emerging arenas include entertainment and original content, such as Internet radio, digital music, news, periodicals, etc.
>What does it mean for society that
>the technocrats are pushing us to be
>always connected, all the time? Should we be scared or happy?
Really, no one's pushing us to be always connected. We're getting a whole lot of different options, and hopefully consumers will be successful in wheedling a vast array of possibilities down to a few more plausible concepts that will persist over time. Some think that wireless internet will allow for smaller, more portable terminals that will free people from the limitations of the 20th century desk or cubicle. Others think that so-called "information appliances," connected devices that serve a specific purpose, will displace the monolithic personal computer, freeing people to take their connectivity in mediated doses rather than in long, awkward long stretches.
We should be careful, and we should be discriminating. But there's no sense in not being happy about it. One feature I fault the academy for is its extreme foreclosure of so many things, be they career paths, technologies, or cultural capital. We do have the ability to discriminate by supporting or discouraging products and services in the marketplace, no matter our career choices, personal preferences, or station.
-HB
Wendy Waters:
The other respondents quite eloquently explained what wireless is. I'll add that no one really knows for sure what the content of the wireless world will be. For example, in addition to stock quotes and sports scores, you'll also be able to find the nearest gas station, hotel, restaurant, coffee shop, hospital etc. I think one of the US networks already has a deal with Starbucks to show customers, anytime they ask for it, where the nearest Starbucks is in relation to their present location (the location of all cell phones can be tracked quite accurately). One of the car rental companies already has something called "never lost" in their cars, in which you enter the address of where you wish to go and it will guide you there (and probably lets you know where all the Starbucks are along the way).
I think Lonely Planet -- the travel guide publisher -- now markets a guidebook accessible on a palm top. As in Douglas' Adams' Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, this one will be constantly updated and could even be made to talk to you.
These are a few examples, but what will come next? As with the conventional Internet, it's limitless. Plus, the need for clear and concise writing and precise organization will be more important than ever if people have to read it off a smaller screen--good opportunities for all of us!
-Wendy
Academic Writing vs. Internet Writing
Wendy Waters:
Kay, can you talk about the differences and similarities between academic writing -- or the type of writing that got you a Ph.D -- and what you do now at Fastweb?
-Wendy
Kay Peterson:
Sure, I'd be happy to. Internet writing is a completely different animal from academic writing. That doesn't mean that someone who's trained in academic writing can't do it. It just means it does require an adjustment.
By and large, I'd say writing for the Internet means writing in fragments and loving it. The driving force behind Internet writing is the nature of the medium itself:
- it's on screen (not the most pleasant of reading experiences)
- your reader can leave at any time by clicking a mouse.
Internet readers don't like to read big chunks of text. They like quick bites that are easy to scan. They want to find what they need quickly. In my online writing, I use a lot of bullet-pointed lists and subheads to help guide the reader. In fact, our company style guide specifies that subheads are no longer than 6 words long, sentences are no longer than 25 words long, and paragraphs should be around 3 sentences long. Quick and to the point.
When first learning this style of writing, I think the tendency of academically trained writers is to feel like you're 'cheating.' It looks very easy -- sentences are short, paragraphs are short and there's not a lot of elaboration. But the fact is, it's a style that requires careful planning, revision and a sense of your audience -- just like any style of writing.
In terms of conceptualization, I think the biggest difference from academic writing is that in graduate school, we are taught to deal with exceptions and counter-arguments. In Internet writing, that's really not necessary. There's not space for the exceptions -- and if you must deal with them, you deal with them quickly.
In my position, I've also had to master a number of other writing styles for a wide array of tasks: ghost writing for our company president in the company newsletter, responding to more complicated inquiries and customer service issues, writing copy for corporate brochures, writing case studies for our PR firm, etc.
None of these styles is really like academic writing, but I'd say that the things I bring from my academic background are an ability to assess an audience and the rhetorical skills to craft a message that conveys a lot of information in an appropriate fashion. The label 'spin doctor' sounds glib, but honestly, it's a skill you pick up in grad school and that many, many people don't have.
I hope this answers the question ...
-Kay
Computers - Skills vs. Work Experience
Subscriber GL:
Dear panelists, besides your writing and research skills, you obviously all had a lot of computer experience to offer to your employers. Where do you see opportunities for historians like myself and other academics whose computer skills do not go beyond word processing, e-mail and Internet browsing?
-GL
Kay Peterson:
Actually, I had a minimum of computer experience. I had the skills you describe, plus a little (very little) html that I taught myself. And I certainly wasn't hired for my computer skills.
I think the best step is to read the want ads voraciously (in newspapers and on-line) to start to define what jobs and job categories sound appealing to you. Simultaneously, find ways to get self-started. I think the first step consists of these two things: making contacts and building an interesting resume. Both Wendy and Mark describe cold calling and cold emailing various companies, which is a great way to go. I took a slightly different route by focusing on creating an interesting resume through projects I could start on my own -- creating a Web site, trying to get some freelance pieces published, etc. Remember, you don't have to limit your resume to actual jobs. I listed both Escape Pod and my Web novel on my resume, which I used to get my current job.
I have a friend who now works for PBS in New York after leaving a career in children's theatre. He was amazed to find that things that got the most attention in all his job interviews were *not* his legitimate credentials (an MFA in Theatre Education, experience as the associate director of education programs at a Broadway theatre), but rather his hobbies:
co-authoring a Web novel (with me) and his near-obsession with Laura Ingalls Wilder and other bits of Americana. He put both these things on his resume and got a lot of attention because of it.
-Kay
Mark Johnson:
I gained my knowledge of graphics and publishing software during a summer internship while in grad school. Beyond that, my computer experience was largely limited to keeping MS Word from destroying my documents. While this was by no means a lot of experience, it was enough to end up on my resume. And that was enough to make me attractive to potential employers.
Remember, it's easier to teach some one how to use a software package than it is to teach someone how to be intelligent, resourceful, and driven. You have the latter, and those are qualities that employers need dearly. Because they are so easy to attain, software skills are almost incidental to your human talents.
If you don't already have publishing or graphics software skills and don't have the time to do an internship, do what comes naturally; pick up a book and read! You can often get the software you need at reduced prices though your university.
-Mark J.
Wendy Waters:
Hi GL. I think there are lots of jobs out there in Internet content that would not require more than the skills that you have. The problem is getting in the door. What I noticed in interviews was that those doing the interviewing tended to be from the technical side--at least in smaller companies--and as such are attracted to technical skills, even for non-technical personnel hires (these people are also not HR experts). Larger companies would likely have a non-technical person doing the hiring for content jobs, and thus your computer skills would likely be adequate in their eyes, although learning a few other programs might tip the scales in your favour.
I'd recommend two things -- one, in your resume and cover letter communicate a keen interest in the Internet and computers (and if you haven't got a keen interest in these things, I'm not sure you should really be looking for a job in this sector of the economy); two, HTML is easy to learn. As Kay did, I'd also strongly recommend anyone interested in possibly making the jump into the internet world learn it so you can (a) put it on your resume and (b) so you'll know more about how the Internet works. Take a course, buy a book, or teach yourself using an online site that helps such as www.htmlgoodies.com . And create a website about something that interests you or volunteer to create one for a local charity or non-profit group. Places like www.geocities.com or www.angelfire.com will host it for free.
And, as Mark said, you might want to consider an entry-level position at a company as a way to get in the door. The work might be a bit boring, but after a few months, you can look to move up in that company or be in a better position to shop your skills around elsewhere.
My $0.02 on your question.
-Wendy
Subscriber CR:
I'm certainly not sure that I'm ready to leave academia, but I have been considering it lately. My wife just got an academic job in a small town in Tennessee and I -- A.B.D. in History with not much written on the dissertation -- think that my chances of scoring a good job in History around here are pretty slim, at least within the next decade or so.
Fortunately, I have always screwed around a lot with computers. I have used VBA to convert Psion (palmtop computer) databases into a useable Mac format, I have used Perl to write medium-sized scripts on both Mac and UNIX machines, I coded a short, original footnoting system in Javascript for an online historical journal ( http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~phalth) , I've done a lot of HTML and a lot of other back end stuff as well as an equal amount of front end work. On the hardware front, I can also upgrade Macs and (I assume) do similar things on PCs.
My problem, as I've talked to a few people in the industry, is that a lot of my experience is not well-documented. Since I haven't been paid for most of the work I've done, my resume looks pretty sketchy. (It's long on the 'skills' part and short on the 'experience' part.) I'm not a true big-project programmer with a computer science degree; I'm more of a dabbler and small script developer. Calling around to companies these days, my first impression is that my best options seem to be tech support jobs, which, mirroring others' concerns, seem like they're below my expectations even for starting out.
How do you think I should go about making myself more marketable? Do you think that I, with my present skill set, have a shot at finding a job that's good enough to tempt me out of academia?
-CR (Historian with Jack-of-all-trades computer skills)
Wendy Waters:
Hi CR. While I'm not sure how many Internet startups are located in a small town in Tennessee, your background might be just what many brand new companies are looking for. You have enough of a technical background to translate (in the words of one interviewer) "Geek" into "English." My understanding is that this is essential for many beginning companies if the founders are computer experts who lack really solid abilities to explain things in ordinary English. If you can translate their techie language into English for potential investors, the media, etc., you would be a valuable asset. If you wrote a cover letter similar to the message you wrote us, and emphasized your versatility (you could write the ordinary English content on their site as well) I think technies would find your application appealing.
The ad I responded to that made me make the shift to dot-com was in fact to translate "geek" and "01010101010" into "Easyspeak." I don't have nearly your technical background, and was interviewed (although in the end, not offered a job there).
Good luck!
-Wendy
Subscriber SG:
It seems to me that whether or not your computer work was paid is less relevant than whether you can document it in some fashion, whether through a description or a sample.
I don't think unpaid-ness should stop you from putting relevant experience on a resume. You still did it.
They might not ask or care if it was paid. But I'm not in the dot-com world, so perhaps I'm wrong.
-SG
Subscriber HB:
Hi CR. I'm responsible for hiring and managing the tech department at an interactive development agency. If I saw your resume come across my desk, and I saw your skills documented, I probably wouldn't worry too much about IT-specific experience. What would be important to me, however, would be portfolio material. I'd recommend you collect everything you've done already, and perhaps work on some more small projects once you survey the job market in your area. I've seen lots of folks with CS training and loads of IT experience who have no idea how to document a project, interact in a team or, worse, create good applications. Good work always wins over empty experience.
You might also consider telecommute consulting, especially as a transitional tool. Dice.com is a pretty good resource for short- and longer-term IT job ops.
Good luck!
Best,
-HB
Kay Peterson:
[sg wrote]:
>It seems to me that whether or not your computer work was paid
>is less relevant than whether you can document it in some fashion,
>whether through a description or a sample.
I agree with (sg). Granted, I'm not in IT, but I do know that I've included unpaid projects on my resume and gotten a good response. I just posted a resume online that included on it unpaid work like Escape Pod, dramaturgical projects and other writing projects, and in the last 2 days have been actively recruited by 2 different companies. Again -- not an exact match to a tech job, but experience is experience. I think the earlier suggestion that you create a portfolio, describe these experiences in your cover letter and outline them on your resume is spot on.
-Kay
Matching Academic Skills to IT Jobs
Subscriber PB:
Greetings! I have a varied background and seek advice on a new direction. My academic and employment past includes:
-BA/MA in Fine Arts 1971/75
-BA/MA in History 1985/89
-Ph.D. Candidate in History, currently writing my dissertation.
-28 years teaching experience in the public schools
I seek advice on where my skills, such as visual arts, analytical and writing, and teaching experience would best "fit" in the technology-oriented business world. I have basic computer literacy but I am no technocrat. What additional training would I need in technology to get an entry-level position?
My second question relates to my "seasoned" state of being. Since I am in my early 50s, would my age be a hindrance to making a career switch?
-PB
Wendy Waters:
Hi PB. See my response to GL earlier for question one; for your second question,
> my "seasoned" state of being. Since I am in my early 50s,
> would my age be a hindrance to making a career switch?
Not really, although that depends. Let me elaborate. For managing the content at Indexonly, a business directory, I need people with a reasonably varied life experience, which carries over into a good basic knowledge of many types of businesses out there (needed for designing categories and making searches work for everyone). Unfortunately, in a pre-IPO Internet company I cannot usually offer the salaries that these individuals want or require. However, more established companies could do so. I would suspect that there are other companies out there who need people with this life experience as well to do content production or other work.
Also, I'm assuming that you're someone who is reasonably young-at-heart and able to work in an environment that might be dominated by 25-30 year olds. While not every info tech company is like this, many are. So, that's something that you'll need to consider for yourself (if it's the right fit) and if you would fit in, you need to communicate that in your cover letter. As an example for you, one of the content editors in my department is a woman who was a loans officer at a bank for 15 years, and did other bank jobs before that, and has also raised two sons. She loves coming here because of the fun and it makes her feel young. She fits in great, even taking part in the occasional rubber-band flinging wars that go on here.
I hope this helps.
Good luck to you,
-Wendy
Subscriber KJ:
Hello ladies and gentlemen! My name is KJ, with a BA/MA in English at ____ and ____ universities. I have been unemployed for the past 2 months, since my two semesters of faculty teaching ended, and am desperately trying to find a new job and trying to transition out of academia. Right now, I am primarily seeking advice and support; for example, as some others have said, how can I take teaching and writing skills from school and teaching and make them work for me on a resume? How can I assess my skills in "real world" terms, and for those of you who did make the leap, what kind of advice would you give another person just starting out?
Thank you; I've been enjoying the discussion.
Sincerely,
-KJ
Mark Johnson:
KJ, Lycos www.lycos.com is reportedly a digital sweatshop, but it may be worth the sacrifice to get their well-known name on your resume.
If you are willing to try the Bay Area, you can't beat Craig's List for job leads:
http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/wri/
-Mark J.
Kay Peterson:
Hey, KJ, for more general info on assessing skills and marketing yourself, I'd also direct you to some great essays written by some PhDs from SUNY, Peter Stokes and Lori Rogers. They ran a site called PhDsWork, which they've since dismantled, but you can find their essays on EscapePod at: http://www.geocities.com/escapepod.geo/phdswork.html
-Kay
Gene Lewis:
I know several people have already responded to this question but I wanted to add another voice. I started in the industry as a technical writer. I did have computer background but that was unusual for technical writers. I have managed technical writers in every company where I have worked, and many of them started out with no more computer skills than you have.
In presenting yourself, stress those writing skills you developed in graduate school, but also make sure that you present yourself as being flexible when it comes to writing styles. Someone already pointed out the differences in technical writing and academic writing. Unlike an academic audience, a technical audience is not going to read any material from beginning to end. Usually, they are looking for specific information, and the technical writer's main task is to make it easy to find. You may want to pick up a book on technical writing, which you should be able to find in university or technical bookstores. You may also want to join the Society of Technical Writers (you do not already have to be working as a technical writer) -- there are chapters in most major cities. STC is a good place to meet other technical writers and find out how they got started. You will be surprised by the wide variety of backgrounds.
Technical writing can include many activities. High-tech companies that produce products for other businesses to use need to provide their customers with user, installation and reference documents. Today, those documents are usually on-line but they are still "printable" as books. In addition, technical writers write on-line help screens. For commercial products, there are a variety of documentation needs. Just look at the documents Microsoft sends out with its products like WORD or EXCELL. In addition, as already discussed, technical writers produce web content.
Technical editing is also an option, again requiring that you understand the style and voice of the documents being edited.
Technical training is another area where you already have the skills you need to start out. Almost every company producing products for businesses has a training organization. If you can learn to use the products, you already know how to put together and present course material. It may be more "hands-on" than teaching history but it is the same skill set.
Another area you may want to think about is customer support. Most high tech firms have some kind of customer support groups to help customers with questions, issues and product problems. If you can learn to use the products, you can get going in a customer support organization. Working in customer support can lead to a number of different career paths, including field support (going to customer sites), pre-sales support (demos for customers), marketing, product testing, and technical writing/editing.
Hope this adds some more ideas.
-Gene
Kay Peterson:
Hi, all - This is just an observation I'd like to make about the current job market. I'm still fairly close to the start of my career (I'm about 1 year and 8 months into my current job). I've been thinking about changing jobs, so I posted my resume on Monster.com and CareerPath.com. That was yesterday. This morning, I received an email message from a recruiter. The job market seems to be just as good as they say.
-Kay
Subscriber AV:
Hi all. I'm a psychology Ph.D. with skills in quantitative research design and data analysis. Are there roles or jobs in the dot-com or tech/computer world that make use of such skills? (I assume market research or similar functions would be one possibility).
Thanks,
-AV
Gene Lewis:
Many high-tech companies do market research/analysis but there are also many firms that do nothing but market/product research/analysis. These would be good firms to look at (I think one is DataQuest but I may be wrong about the name).
In addition, HR departments also do research/analysis, usually on salaries and turnover rates.
The other area in high-tech that does this type of work is Quality Assurance groups, who do a lot of analysis on problems found/fixed, etc. in a software product release. If you want more information on this type of thing, let me know.
-Gene
Subscriber HB:
It strikes me that we haven't really discussed the sorts of positions available in the Internet industry. Here are a few that come to my mind that humanities and social sciences Ph.D's might be predisposed for. In addition, there is a full list of jobs and descriptions that you might want to check out at
www.salary.com http://swz.salary.com/layoutscripts/swzl_jobdesc.asp?narrowcode=IT02
- I apologize for not explaining these further here; the morning beckons, and the descriptions at salary.com are quite thorough anyhow.
-Editor/Content Manager
-Associate Producer/Project Manager
-Copy Writer/Editor
-HB
Gene Lewis:
In addition, if we look at high-tech in a broader sense (including software development, not just Internet), I think your list grows to include:
-Technical Writing/Editing
-Technical Support
-Technical Training
Paula Foster:
HB, this is great info. (And thanks as well to Gene for the additions she posted soon after.) Can you please tell us a little bit about what each of the first three positions entails?
>Editor/Content Manager
>Associate Producer/Project Manager
>Copy Writer/Editor
-Paula
Kay Peterson:
I can speak to the issue of the first position (Editor/Content Manager) since that is essentially what I do in my job. Just like it sounds, content managers handle all content (copy, articles, stories, information, etc.) on a site. What this means varies, I believe, from site to site. Many sites run syndicated content -- content produced and distributed by larger syndicates -- which is presented, edited, scheduled, etc., by the content manager. At my company, we produce our own content, so content management covers a number of duties:
- Plan and write feature stories for the site (we post stories about college admissions, financial aid, career development, job hunting, etc.). That means coming up with the content plan (topics to be covered); assigning a staff writer or freelancer to produce the story or writing it myself; editing the drafts I receive so that they are consistent with the 'voice' of our site, doing basic html coding and inserting the stories into the content management system. It also means creating a schedule of 'feature stories' that appear daily on the site and ensuring that the stories 'roll out' on time.
- Create new content centers on the site: we create pages on the site that focus on a single issue: internships, standardized testing, deciphering your financial aid award letter. To build them, I must create new stories and tools, collect deadline and related information, design the page, and keep it updated once it's launched.
- Oversee/update all 'peripheral' content, which includes the Gateway page, the 'About Us' page, the privacy policy and other site pages.
- Manage 'partnership' relationships. Sometimes, my company will partner with another company to promote each other's content, tools and services. Getting the partner company's content, etc., on our site is managed by the content manager.
My job involves a lot more than the content manager side of things -- I cover a number of other editorial duties as well for in house and promotional purposes -- but I think my job is somewhat representative of the duties of a Content Manager.
As an aside, another way to go in this field is to work for a Web development firm. Such firms work on a consultant basis, helping other companies build and manage their Web sites. We recently had an editor leave our staff to go work for such a team. There seem to me to be a lot of opportunities of that sort, particularly right now, with the explosion of Internet commerce and all.
That's my slant on things ...
-Kay
Subscriber HB:
> >Associate Producer/Project Manager
Sometimes these titles blur into one another, but Producers and Project Managers are essentially responsible for overseeing the internal development of a project. This usually entails gathering requirements, organizing a team, coordinating assets, resources, and external requirements (location set up, deliverable assets, video shoots, etc.). Depending on the level of experience, Producers are often responsible for scope, budget, and schedule drafting. They are often closely tied to business development and marketing at client-services companies. Once the project begins, the producer is responsible for seeing that the promised deadlines, milestones, and requirements are met.
Often, Producers also take on some of the role of Account Executive or Product Manager, mediating between the client or CEO's wishes and the realities of the project scope. Producers and Project Managers are quick on their feet, articulate, capable of flawless public speaking, and detail-oriented. They may work on one project for 6 months to 1 year, or they may work on several at once, each lasting only 1-3 months.
> >Copy Writer/Editor
Copy Writing is often a contract position, but it can easily be a full-time job at dot-coms or client-services companies. The copy writer is responsible for gathering information from a variety of sources, including team members, clients, competitors, PR reps, and the marketplace and generating original written content for the web, printed materials, or promotional materials. Copy Writers must distill information well and be deft masters of formal, informal, and colloquial language. They must be capable of generating cogent, quality prose from very limited materials. The best copy writers are the ones who get it 90% right the first time; as a result, they must be insightful and detail-oriented.
-HB
Gene Lewis:
Hi all, I did think of another type of high-tech firm where academic skills fit nicely. Have any of you looked at companies that make educational software? There is one here in Southern California, Davidson, and there are many others.
You may not be familiar with Educational Software so let me give you a couple of examples. There is a software package called "Oregon Trail" aimed at kids around 9 to 12 that puts them in the position of traveling along the Oregon Trail. Historians clearly played a role in developing the program (and it has been so popular that they have 2 sequels). Other educational software is aimed at supplementing school curricula. For example, there are packages on American History for high school students.
If you have any interest in elementary and secondary education, this might be an industry to explore. I think you can position yourself to play a role in designing/developing content that will be effective in teaching kids (one idea I had recently was to create software that would allow a kid to be a member of congress and let them go through the process of proposing a bill and getting it passed). I am sure the educational software business is moving toward being on the Internet as well.
Also, as I was writing this, it occurred to me that institutions like Smithsonian have extremely extensive web sites. Again, these may offer career opportunities for academics.
Just some thoughts,
-Gene
Mark Johnson:
Lightspan is another publicly traded company that's in the online education business:
http://www.lightspan.com/ - They are based in San Diego.
-Mark J.
Wendy Waters:
There is also www.webct.com/ , which makes educational classroom tools focusing on the college level. (I've used them, they are great!). They have numerous training and content positions out of both Vancouver and Boston.
Subscriber SG:
I wasn't paying attention to the beginning of this thread, but the mention of Lightspan caught my eye since I'm in the middle of writing a story about them and a host of similar companies for an education/ technology newspaper.
If people are looking for ed/tech companies, you can track down dozens by looking at who's advertising in The Chronicle of Higher Ed, Education Week, and eSchool News.
Long-term viability of the company is something to be considered seriously before accepting a job, though, as many think that the market niche is overcrowded and consolidation is in the air. I say this not to discourage anyone from looking for jobs in online education, but just to point out a consideration which may not have occurred to those used to the relatively stable institutional environment of the university world.
How's that for a graceful sentence.
-SG
Paula Foster:
Gene Lewis said:
>Technical training is another area where you already have
>the skills you need to start out. Almost every company producing
>products for businesses has a training organization.
>If you can learn to use the products, you already know how to
>put together and present course material. It may be
>more "hands-on" than teaching history but it is the same skill set.
I would like to complicate this statement. Although Gene is absolutely right to suggest that most WRK4US subscribers already have a good head start as trainers because of their teaching skills, developing training classes for adult learners is (to me) way harder than teaching in an academic classroom, and knowing how to use a given product is only a small part of training others to use it.
I say all that because of my own experience in designing and delivering training programs to adults. I have done this several times, and now see that curriculum development takes enormous amounts of time and thought, much more than it takes to work out a lesson plan for an academic classroom. The training industry says that it generally takes 20 hours of development time, more or less, for every 1 hour of class time. I have found that ratio to be about right. That's 20 hours of serious brain-crunching, trying to figure out exactly how to plan the class time so that learners will *definitely*, not probably, come away with a very specific set of skills. So the expectations are different. For example, in classroom teaching, if you manage to get a good discussion going, you've already done a good job because discussion is itself a valued end result. Not so in training. In training, discussion and other class activities are very valuable, but only insofar as they help participants master the specific skills being addressed in the class. Discussion alone is not enough.
I could go on and on about this, but since this is the "info-tech" discussion, not the training discussion, I will save it for another time! For now, it will suffice to say that designing training modules is a very complex thing, requiring special professional skills and understandings. Classroom teachers like us, even the best among us, will have to learn those things in order to be successful trainers. It's not nearly as hard as getting a PhD, of course, but it does take effort.
Speakers, can you tell us a little more about what types of training classes are commonly needed in the info-tech industry? Is it most often customers who need to be trained? Or do employees also need to be trained? Who needs to be trained to do what, and why?
-Paula Foster
-feeling talkative today
Gene Lewis:
Paula, I agree with you that instructional design for technical classes is indeed a specialized field (one in which you can get a Ph.D. if you want). Anyone making a jump from academia to any field in high-tech will go through a learning period to acquire new skills (technical writing, instructional design, etc.). Just as academic writing is not identical to tech writing, technical instructional design is different from academic course design.
But, I believe it is a career opportunity in high-tech businesses for academics, just as tech writing is. And, skills acquired designing a history class transfer to the business world just as writing skills do.
As for types of courses offered.... it depends on the products being produced and the purposes for which they are being produced. In software development companies, which produce products for businesses, courses are usually offered for the customers. Let's use Oracle Corporation as an example. Oracle produces database products that are used by many businesses
(e.g., banks) as part of their daily business operations. Oracle Corporation probably has an "external" training department responsible for designing and giving courses to customers to show them how they can use Oracle products to solve business issues. A company like Oracle probably also has an "internal" training department responsible for keeping Oracle employees trained in new technology (e.g., Java programming). The internal department probably requires knowledge that this audience would not have. But, on the external side, once you learn the products, how businesses use them, and the basics of instructional design, this is a career opportunity for people in this discussion.
-Gene
Wendy Waters:
For my company it's the salespeople and a few internal staff who need the training on our internal applications and on how our database and company works generally (actually to be technically correct we call them "franchise operators" and they work in a given city or town who sell advertising and help maintain the content). Presently, we don't have someone dedicated to doing this and I (along with about 4-5 others) pitch in once in a while as needed. As we grow, I can see a likelihood that someone will be hired in this capacity.
At Epic Data, another high-tech company (where I worked before grad school) the "training and documentation department" trained customers in the use of custom-made systems, which included hardware and software.
That's about the only insight I can offer on this issue. Hopefully the other speakers will have some more information.
-Wendy
Gene Lewis:
I'd like to add one comment to Wendy's comment that she finds the hours less than those required for doing a good job teaching history.
I think it is important for folks to know what they are getting into.... my experience in high-tech firms is that 50 hours a week is average..... 60 to 80 hour weeks are not uncommon, especially as the market has become more competitive and as companies run much leaner than they did 20 years ago. If you are expecting 40-hour workweeks, don't go into high tech....it just isn't the reality, at least in southern California.
-Gene
Matching Academic Skills to IT Jobs (continued)
Subscriber HB:
As another So Cal'er, I just thought I'd confirm Gene's findings to add a second point of reference. Workweeks can be long, and I know few people who work 8-hour days. Often, however, this is by choice: they just want to put in the extra effort to get the product to the next level. I'd advise asking potential employers about historical work weeks *and* about what they expect of you.
-HB
Wendy Waters:
Gene raises a good point about the hours. My normal hours are likely an exception. Having read up on the field before I went to interviews, and been interviewed by people at other places who clearly worked 60+ hours per week, I was pleasantly surprised by the attitudes at this company where a 40-hour week is expected and not much more (I probably work about 45 hours some weeks but rarely more than that).
The magazine Fast Company ran an article in either this month's issue or last month about "Saner Startups." Apparently this is a new trend and one that fits This company. Sane startups expect an honest week's work, but not 60+ hours except perhaps under exceptional circumstances for a short period of time.
According to the article, sane startups tend to be run by people who previously worked at start ups that required those long hours (and this fits my company). These individuals felt they lost more than they gained as a result of those long hours (often, their spouses left them, children disowned them, and/or health problems emerged). They have launched companies with the new philosophy. The belief here is that burnt out, tired people are not as effective workers -- especially doing brain work -- than someone who is well rested and has had some time to spend with their friends and family. And, happy people make better workers (stress at home caused by long hours at work does not make for a happy person).
So, I'd say don't rule out dot-com if you only want a 40-45 hour week, but be aware that most companies do expect those long hours (even if this philosophy is diminishing - as Fast Company says it is).
-Wendy
Kay Peterson:
Hi, all -- I'm also glad Gene raised the point of hours, but interestingly, I'm in Wendy's camp on this. I work a 40-45 hour workweek in general. Not that I haven't put in extra hours when needed (in June '99, we had one month to completely relaunch the site, complete with 50 new content articles!), but unless you're in IT or you're a VP, 40 hours or so is normal here.
-Kay
Subscriber HB:
I don't want to belabor this point too much, but I think it's an important one, especially because academic employment provides a flexible schedule that most academic advisers would cite as a major reason to privilege such a career.
That said, I think 40-45 hours/week is an accurate standard. Most companies worth their weight don't nickel and dime their employees for every hour, allowing errands, appointments, etc. without question. Because most internet companies are project-based, whether internal (dot-coms) or external (client services), you'll find that the 50-80 hour weeks will come at these milestones. Kay provided a good example. It's not unlike a book or journal deadline, really, except that there are a lot more people involved.
-HB
Kay Peterson:
As an amusing side note, the most grueling work schedule I've ever had wasn't in a dot-com, but instead, was at a university, when I worked in academic administration. At some point, it was decided that a great way to save money would be simply not to replace staff that left until the next fiscal year. (Believe it or not, the director of our center actually earned a big bonus for saving money this way!). As a result, when I started in that job, my position had been open for 9 months. My assistant, who had been covering both her position and her superior's during that time, quit soon after I'd been hired, so then I got to cover her position and mine for the next 9 months. Trust me, $28K a year for 12-hour days for a solid 9 months is not fun!
Tangible/Intangible Benefits Compared
Tom Wilk: Question on benefit packages at dot-coms vs. universities
Thanks to the panel for a great discussion so far! My question is: How do the benefit packages (and/or salaries) at your dot-coms compare to those you experienced at universities? (At my workplace, for ex., full-time benefits are better than those Ohio State U. offers to its TAs and adjuncts, but not markedly better than those available to faculty.)
Also, how strong a role have material compensations played in your decision to *stay* in dot-coms vs. non-dot-com companies (and/or universities) now that you've made the shift into this career track? These can be sensitive questions, so thanks in advance for any responses you are comfortable offering, including either hard numbers or more general observations.
Thanks very much
-Thomas Wilk
Technical Writer/Editor
Battelle Environmental Restoration
(Guest Speaker/Panelist, wrk4us Discussion 1)
Wendy Waters:
Hi Tom. When I started, my salary was about what I could make teaching as a sessional (as in non-tenure track) full time here in BC. However, the hours are/were much shorter than what it takes to do a good job teaching history. I've since received a raise, and now make the same or slightly less than a tenure-track assistant professor in history. Yet in addition to that base salary, I also have reasonable stock options in the company which I expect will give me a decent bonus (even pay off my student loans) over the next couple years.
As for benefits, my understanding is few Internet startups can offer benefits immediately. We just got them here, and they are extended medical benefits, including a dental plan that covers 80% of cleanings and basic stuff and 60% of specialized work such as crowns. This is quite close to the plan I had at the University of British Columbia. About 8 years ago, before grad school, I worked at a high-tech company that offered excellent benefits (full dental, for example), much better than the university does. I expect that if this company continues to grow, be profitable, and do well, that the benefits will increase.
>Also, how strong a role have material compensations played in your decision
>to *stay* in dot-coms vs. non-dot-com companies (and/or universities) now that you've made the shift into this career track?
>These can be sensitive questions, so thanks in advance for any responses you are comfortable
>offering, including either hard numbers or more general observations.
For me it was mostly disenchantment with enough aspects of academic life that drove me to look for steady work elsewhere. I happened to find it here. Now that I'm here, because I like the work, love the environment, and the pay is as good as I could do in academia -- I can't see leaving this sector of the economy or workforce any time soon. And I'm starting to reach the point where I can't ever see myself going back to academia.
-Wendy
Gene Lewis:
I have been away from academia for a long time so I am not really in touch with current benefits and salaries. However, in high-tech firms in southern California, entry-level positions (tech writing, customer support, training, etc.) tend to be in the 30,000-to-40,000 range. Several years of experience (2-5) pushes those numbers into the 50's. By the time you have around ten years experience, if you are good, you can be in the 80's and 90's. I don't know how southern California salaries compare to other parts of the country.
"Dot-coms" have the reputation for paying less because of stock options. I recently did a job search on dot-coms, and I did not find salaries lower than in non-dot-com software companies. I found them to be comparable and flexible.
In terms of benefits, many established software companies offer a full range of benefits. My own experience with the dot-com I just joined is that they do as well.
-Gene
Subscriber HB:
I should point out that one big plus in industry salary and benefit packages is your ability to negotiate more aggressively than you might be able to do for an academic position. Competition is fierce these days, and if you work on what you're expecting and negotiate well during the interview process, often needs can be met or exceeded. Folks accustomed to the hands-tied mentality of the academy may not immediately think of some of the considerations that can go into a job offer package. In addition to medical, dental, life, 401(k), stock options, and other standard benefits, companies work hard to gain a competitive edge in the market. The more intangible benefits I've heard about recently include morning bagels/doughnuts; catered lunches/dinners; flexible workdays or weeks; valet parking; health club/country club memberships. Life can be grand!
-HB
Kay Peterson:
Hey, Tom -- As a faculty member, I only ever taught as an instructor on an 'as-needed' basis, so I was never part of the university's benefits and salary system. As a result, I'm hesitant to compare directly.
I did, however, spend a year and a half in academic administration. My salary in that role was under $30K (ooh, she's naming figures), and I started in my current job at a salary higher than that. I've since received a raise that pushed me a little higher.
In terms of benefits, I'd say they're pretty equivalent (again, comparing my academic admin role). I had more paid holidays and personal days at the university (they were absolute skinflints in that regard when I first started at my current company), but everything else is on par. My company really isn't a 'start-up'; we've been online since 1995, and the organization was in business as a paper-based firm for several years prior to that. As a result, there's been an accrual of benefits since to rival that of the university (health, dental, retirement plan). One benefit I have in business that I did *not* have at the university was the valued year-end bonus -- a lovely perk and great incentive.
Salary wasn't really an incentive to leave academe. I left because job security seemed nowhere to be found, and the more I examined my needs and preferences, the more I realized the academy never really suited me. I would absolutely never consider returning to academe -- not because I'm bitter or because I revile it. It simply holds no appeal for me. I really like where I've landed and want to say on that track.
-Kay
Subscriber NI:
Dear Folks, I'm an ABD in religion in the latter stages of the diss. and considering a move into private consulting, which will involve alot of net work and possibly a start-up of my own dot-com. What interests me in this discussion is not so much skill-sets and tech opportunities but the more intangible issues related to job satisfaction. Do the folks who have made the jump really not miss some of the finer things in academic life like meeting and getting to know flesh and blood persons and developing people instead of products? What about the thrill of the chase in writing and research - pursuing an idea, getting into some depth, communicating those ideas with others. Learning and growing as a scholar and educator.
I may sound like an idealist. I'm not. I have similar reasons for wanting to leave the academy - not least of which is the alienation I've experienced in its progressive demise into the "knowledge industry" where I wouldn't want a job even if it was available. I'm just thinking about the things I would miss most and wonder if the salary and benefits (not to mention long hours) of the dot-com world would compensate for all this.
Any comments?
-NI
Kay Peterson:
NI wrote:
>Do the folks who have made the
> jump really not miss some of the finer things in
> academic life like meeting and getting to know flesh
> and blood persons and developing people instead of
> products? What about the thrill of the chase in
> writing and research - pursuing an idea, getting into
> some depth, communicating those ideas with others.
> Learning and growing as a scholar and educator >
> Any comments?
Boy, howdy. You'll be pleased to know that my response was, "Gee, I've found everything he's described in my current job." The truth is, in most jobs, you work closely with flesh and blood persons all the livelong day -- probably more so than you would in the academy. As part of your job, you *have* to get to know them, how they think, what they value, in order to work effectively with them. And you have to do that *all day long*, five days a week -- not for the few odd hours a week you meet with students, fellow faculty or attend conferences.
Similarly, I think you'll find that the intellectual charge you get out of research and writing also occurs elsewhere. Defining a problem and then developing solutions is a big part of every job we've discussed this week. I think it's a mistake to assume that this kind of mental activity adheres to a kind of intellectual content instead of a kind of intellectual activity.
But that's just my view. Any other thoughts?
-Kay
Subscriber HB:
NI brings up some interesting point worthy of consideration. As a manager, a crucial part of my job, one I enjoy very much, is indeed getting to know flesh and blood persons and developing people. In fact, I'd say the products are really secondary. They seep naturally from good people. In many ways, the only thing I do is develop people. From what I've seen, mentorship and coaching in the corporate arena is much, much more forthright than in the academy, where complex personal conflicts, assumptions, and needs are rarely resolved. I'd say without fear of irony that the corporate world is more conducive to meaningful, deep relationships than the academic world. I consider myself lucky to work with so many very smart people with deep and diverse backgrounds. My colleagues have backgrounds in art, philosophy, physics, literature, music, theater. They speak French, German, Danish, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, Finnish. I have often discussed Kant and Jaspers with our Salespeople while waiting for the morning coffee to brew. At the right company, the level of intellectual intensity can actually be higher than in an academic setting.
As for pursuing and communicating an idea, at the best organizations the only goal is good ideas. The best ideas. At my company, everyone takes part in conceptualization, and the best ideas always win after much measured discussion. I use my time and energy much more efficiently than I ever did at university.
A question this brings up is one of production, a favorite of academics. While academic production is often measured in quantitative or templated ways (courses, exams, papers, articles, books, etc.), you'll find that industry production is always measured in quality and success. It's a measure that's much more progressive in my opinion.
This is not to say that I'd like to be completely divorced from the academy. Academic institutions carry a girth and aura that is, for better or worse, unmatchable. The institutional sublime of the Republic of Scholars may be passing into a new form, but until it does, I think it's always worthwhile to maintain ties to the academy through informal visits, lectures, conferences, speaking engagements, adjunct positions, guest courses, and the like. Most institutions, public or private, will welcome you no matter your station. Carrying your Ph.D. on your sleeve doesn't hurt either.
Best,
-HB
Wendy Waters:
I have to agree with Kay & Gene - I find my job involves much more contact with people than when I worked as an Historian, teaching and getting my dissertation done. I sit surrounded by people all day long. We joke about ordinary things and discuss technical aspects of our website, the content, the database, what's not quite working right today, where the company is going, etc.
Many of the same people skills involved in and that I acquired teaching I have found to carry over quite well to this job--and more. Different individuals have different strengths and weaknesses and learning to give each person tasks that allow them to use their strengths, and don't involve them having to overcome weaknesses is a challenge I enjoy. (For example, some people are very detail oriented, and happy to work with something until it's absolutely clean and perfect at the micro level, others are stronger at seeing the big picture and working with content at a larger scope).
My content group here also will always have a lot of entry-level positions, filled by people in their late teens or early 20s, and although it's more subtle, some of the same types of mentoring goes on, helping them along in becoming professionals. At the same time, my boss mentors me in many ways, giving me tips and words of wisdom and experience from his 20 years in software development and management, hassling me when I don't handle something entirely the way it should have been done, and giving me positive feedback and recognition when I do well.
As for the thrill of chasing down information and analyzing it -- I do that all the time, whether looking for certain types of listings in our database, researching how competitor sites' content compares to us, writing reports about either of these issues, etc. One difference is that there are not weeks, months, or years to write up the results of research. Instead, it's a series of shorter term projects, that all contribute to the long term goals of the company.
Good question.
-Wendy
Tom Wilk:
[NI wrote]
> Do the folks who have made the
> jump really not miss ... developing people instead of
> products? Learning and growing as a scholar and educator.
Building on NI's great question and the four terrific replies, I sense that part of what academics lose when they shift away from university work is the chance to engage in curriculum development on a regular basis. Is there some sort of equivalent to curriculum development and/or implementation in the dot-com world? Anything closer than the mentoring
And training already described?
Thanks
-Tom
Thomas Wilk
Technical Writer/Editor
Battelle Environmental Restoration
(Guest Speaker/Panelist, wrk4us Discussion 1)
p.s. Sometimes my group gets contracted to help develop seminar presentations on innovative environmental cleanup technologies for our government clients, but that's only about 3-5% of my annual workload, and I wish there were more of that kind of work.
Wendy Waters:
Good question, Tom. I think there is an equivalent, although on a much smaller scale -- depending upon what one's job is of course: making content work for the intended audience. That's largely what preparing a lecture, and designing a course is about (at least from my experience). And, what I do here is manage a portion of the process of making our content (which happens to be business listings, categories, and advertisements) work for our users.
The process, management and thinking skills required are similar to those I used teaching, even though the end product is quite different.
-Wendy
Subscriber NI:
Dear friends, A warm "thank you" to Gene, Kay, Tom and HB for their responses to my query regarding the shift from academic to dot-com culture. I was somewhat humbled by their enthusiastic description of their own work and workplaces. It made me realize some of the misconceptions I have had about work in this field. I think I had imagined most net-workers as
tele-commuters operating in a cocooned environment out of their home-offices and not really interacting a whole lot with the rest of the world. (Actually not much different than what I'm experiencing right now as I work on the dissertation!:)
I was especially intrigued with the remark of one of you who said something to the effect that they had more satisfying contact with flesh and blood persons in their present work than they ever did in the academy. This has really got me thinking. The issue of what defines and measures "productivity" is also an interesting question. It is true that this notion is VERY narrowly defined in academic culture - often to the detriment of "creativity."
Great food for thought! Thanks again.
-NI
Wendy Waters:
You offer some good observations, NI, and raise a point that might have been overlooked if not for your questions -- that info-tech is a highly social environment.
This reminds me of an ultimate paradox I first read about in Bruno Latour's Science in Action. Latour explains how SOCIAL the "hard" sciences are because of the constant need to interact and work with a range of people, whether in one's own laboratory or one around the world. By contrast, social sciences and humanities professionals often lead workplace lives that are much less social.
The more complex the technology, the greater the need for human interaction to make it work, perhaps?
Talking on the commute home with a programmer here, we both commented on how our respective jobs couldn't be done from a home office precisely because of this need to be constantly interacting with others.
Although the stereotype NI refers to often also portrays computer people as geeks and nerds with thick glasses and pocket protectors, lacking all social skills, I have also not found this to be the case. Sure a few types like that are around--and I think a study would reveal that such people who lack social skills don't excel too far in this business--but most people have quite active non-computer lives and interests outside of work.
Have a great weekend everyone!
-Wendy
Concluding Remarks from WRK4US Host Paula Foster:
It's time for our four Guest Speakers to be relieved from their duties. I want to say a big, warm THANK YOU to all of them: Wendy, Kay, Mark and Gene have done a great job of answering our questions, providing information and inspiration for many WRK4US subscribers. Many thanks to all of them for their excellent contributions and for taking time out of their busy schedules to participate!
-Paula